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B1G All Star rankings

  • I heard this on the radio the other day and found it surprising, although I'm not sure how to interpret it - of the 22 players who made All B1G, 8 of them were 2 star or less.

    This post was edited by RunThruThe T on 12/22/2012 at 8:14 AM

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    RunThruThe T ●

  • It means there are more success stories for 2-stars or less because there is literally thousands more of them... And a lot of them end up in the big 10

    volfan28

  • I'll give you my interpretation. No one, no matter how astute, can look into a young man's heart and see how much he really wants to be great. Forty times, size, weight, bench press, vertical leap and high school stats don't show how much a player will mature and how much he will grow. Obviously, more than a third of the Big 10's best this fall proved that performance is far more important than potential.

    Some people, including many on this board, want to swear by recruiting evaluations. I've never been a star gazer and I will never be one. IMO, this is where college coaches really earn their money. Those who can find good players regardless of their star count and coach them up get my undying respect. I hope we have a coaching staff that can do that.

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    RockytopATL ●

  • RockytopATL said...

    I'll give you my interpretation. No one, no matter how astute, can look into a young man's heart and see how much he really wants to be great. Forty times, size, weight, bench press, vertical leap and high school stats don't show how much a player will mature and how much he will grow. Obviously, more than a third of the Big 10's best this fall proved that performance is far more important than potential.

    Some people, including many on this board, want to swear by recruiting evaluations. I've never been a star gazer and I will never be one. IMO, this is where college coaches really earn their money. Those who can find good players regardless of their star count and coach them up get my undying respect. I hope we have a coaching staff that can do that.

    Agree, if the guys at 247 or any other service were perfect, we know they are not (Wes) :) they still do not look at every kid in the country. They see a lot of them but not all. They are a lot of no stars out there that are very good. I pay for this service because these guys are good at what they do. But none of them get them all right.

    Pastor Jax

  • just like the kid on byu last night cant remember his name he played linebacker..lordy what a kid he was all over that field..and they was another player dont know his name..but 2 of them stood out to me.
    cause i thought if we had those 2 players on our defense this past season .what a game changer it would have been..played with alot of heart.

    vols4life1969

  • vols4life1969 said...

    just like the kid on byu last night cant remember his name he played linebacker..lordy what a kid he was all over that field..and they was another player dont know his name..but 2 of them stood out to me. cause i thought if we had those 2 players on our defense this past season .what a game changer it would have been..played with alot of heart.

    Kyle Van Noy

    Blocked a punt, stripped the QB in the endzone and then recovered for a touchdown, then capped the night with a pick six.

    I haven't looked him up, but I bet he was a three star or lower.

    This post was edited by RockytopATL on 12/21/2012 at 3:43 PM

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    RockytopATL ●

  • RockytopATL said...

    Kyle Van Noy

    Blocked a punt, stripped the QB in the endzone and then recovered for a touchdown, then capped the night with a pick six.

    I haven't looked him up, but I bet he was a three star or lower.

    How many 2 or 3 star make it to the NFL draft every year? Quite a few, I suspect. We all, me included, get wrapped up in 4 and 5 star players, thinking we have to have to them to be successful. In many cases these are vey talented individuals and deserving of their ranking. But lesser ranked players that have heart, character and a strong desire that can't be easily calibrated in a scoring system, can find great success in the right situation. GO VOLS

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    Bleedz_Orange

  • RockytopATL said...

    Kyle Van Noy

    Blocked a punt, stripped the QB in the endzone and then recovered for a touchdown, then capped the night with a pick six.

    I haven't looked him up, but I bet he was a three star or lower.

    Actually, no. Van Noy was ranked the No. 226 overall prospect in the (retroactive) 247Composite for the 2009 class. He was a four-star prospect on multiple recruiting sites, although 247Sports wasn't around then.

    Like most things, the best approach with star ratings likely lies somewhere in the middle. While there's logic to those who say people should trust Tennessee's coaching staff, there's no denying that star ratings mean something. Writing off every three-star prospect as insignificant is silly, but so is saying that star ratings mean nothing.

    Staff writer for govols247 — http://www.twitter.com/RyanCallahan247 — rcallahan@247sports.com

    Ryan Callahan ●

  • Bleedz_Orange said...

    How many 2 or 3 star make it to the NFL draft every year? Quite a few, I suspect. We all, me included, get wrapped up in 4 and 5 star players, thinking we have to have to them to be successful. In many cases these are vey talented individuals and deserving of their ranking. But lesser ranked players that have heart, character and a strong desire that can't be easily calibrated in a scoring system, can find great success in the right situation. GO VOLS

    The reason I get caught up in star ratings is because it is a fact that the higher rated a player is, the greater chance he has to make it to the NFL. It's not an opinion. It is a fact.

    Sure, there are lots of 3-star players who make it to the NFL every year and there are several 5-star busts every year. But if you look at the overall percentages, you'll see that the star system is a decent indicator of what kind of player you are getting.

    Here's a link to a study done by TOS in 2011.

    Scout.com: NFL Draft Recap - Do Stars Matter?

    Scouting football players on any level is an inexact science at best, but is there a correlation between star rankings and the NFL Draft?

    recruiting.scout.com

    volfan28

  • volfan28 said...

    The reason I get caught up in star ratings is because it is a fact that the higher rated a player is, the greater chance he has to make it to the NFL. It's not an opinion. It is a fact.

    Sure, there are lots of 3-star players who make it to the NFL every year and there are several 5-star busts every year. But if you look at the overall percentages, you'll see that the star system is a decent indicator of what kind of player you are getting.

    Here's a link to a study done by TOS in 2011.

    That's an interesting piece.

    The bottom line is that even when you figure in the odds, here's how it generally works:

    Losing teams don't sign many fours and fives. You have to win to get those. So you need to coach up the guys you have until you start to win and then more fours and fives start coming your way.

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    RockytopATL ●

  • Ryan Callahan said...

    Actually, no. Van Noy was ranked the No. 226 overall prospect in the (retroactive) 247Composite for the 2009 class. He was a four-star prospect on multiple recruiting sites, although 247Sports wasn't around then.

    Like most things, the best approach with star ratings likely lies somewhere in the middle. While there's logic to those who say people should trust Tennessee's coaching staff, there's no denying that star ratings mean something. Writing off every three-star prospect as insignificant is silly, but so is saying that star ratings mean nothing.

    OK, thanks for setting me straight. I had never heard his name before last night.

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    RockytopATL ●

  • That's a pretty interesting read that TOS did. While I definitely think you have to take into account the stars a player gets, like RTATL said you can't measure a kids heart, desire, and work ethic in the college ranks. I would rather have a 3* kid who feels the need to prove himself and is going to come in and work than a 5* kid that's going to come in and try and just show up and play. I know there are pleny of 5* kids who do indeed put in a ton of work, but IMO the way they announce their college decisions (TV, all star games, press conf's at their school where the entire school is in attendance) some of these big name recruits come in with the wrong attitude (again, not saying this is a one size fits all mentality for any player, regardless of the *'s).

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    GO VOLS!!

    BuckShot JP ●

  • volfan28 said...

    The reason I get caught up in star ratings is because it is a fact that the higher rated a player is, the greater chance he has to make it to the NFL. It's not an opinion. It is a fact.

    Sure, there are lots of 3-star players who make it to the NFL every year and there are several 5-star busts every year. But if you look at the overall percentages, you'll see that the star system is a decent indicator of what kind of player you are getting.

    Here's a link to a study done by TOS in 2011.

    So 14 of the 32 NFL first rounders were 3stars or less coming out of high school. The piece stated that around 300 4-5star guys come out of high school every year. So, thanks for proving to me that stars mean very little. If anything, that piece reassured my stance on stars, they mean very little.

    Coach85 ●

  • RockytopATL said...

    I'll give you my interpretation. No one, no matter how astute, can look into a young man's heart and see how much he really wants to be great. Forty times, size, weight, bench press, vertical leap and high school stats don't show how much a player will mature and how much he will grow. Obviously, more than a third of the Big 10's best this fall proved that performance is far more important than potential.

    Some people, including many on this board, want to swear by recruiting evaluations. I've never been a star gazer and I will never be one. IMO, this is where college coaches really earn their money. Those who can find good players regardless of their star count and coach them up get my undying respect. I hope we have a coaching staff that can do that.

    Hear Hear

    tnbear66

  • As I think about it, it really drives home the importance of coaching - being able to coach up a kid and being able to get the kids to buy in and play as a team. Look at what Bill Snyder has done in his two stints at Kansas State. It's really remarkable given the type of kid he generally gets. I hope CBJ & staff can get that done here.

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    RunThruThe T ●

  • volfan28 said...

    The reason I get caught up in star ratings is because it is a fact that the higher rated a player is, the greater chance he has to make it to the NFL. It's not an opinion. It is a fact.

    Sure, there are lots of 3-star players who make it to the NFL every year and there are several 5-star busts every year. But if you look at the overall percentages, you'll see that the star system is a decent indicator of what kind of player you are getting.

    Here's a link to a study done by TOS in 2011.

    Thanks for the link '28! +1 I was shocked to see that Vikings QB Christian Ponder was only a 3 star. With his All-Pro numbers, I figured him to be a 5 star . . . sarcasm

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    "Old School"! A strong defense wins championships!

    volviking

  • Coach85 said...

    So 14 of the 32 NFL first rounders were 3stars or less coming out of high school. The piece stated that around 300 4-5star guys come out of high school every year. So, thanks for proving to me that stars mean very little. If anything, that piece reassured my stance on stars, they mean very little.

    Agree with you with one caviot. Per 247 ratings there are only 28 5-star high school football players in the current class, while there are around 250 or so 4-star and MANY, MANY more 3-stars. So the odds are that you will see quite alot of 3-stars and maybe below make the NFL because there are MANY, MANY more of them. So, as Ryan stated I do believe they mean something and if I were a college coach, or fan I would give them credence. They are compiled by folks that know alot more than the average fan when it comes to judging talent, and the composite 247 is even a better weighted system as it takes in more than just one systems/sites rankings.

    Do they mean that if you dont get one or two of the 5-stars or 5-10 4-stars you are doomed,No, but the top teir teams do each and every year. Just look at the 247 board and you will see that is a fact. We are not there right now as many have pointed out. So we let CBJ and staff get who than can and who they feel are the best players to FIT in their system this year and hope they coach them up and start us on the road back to where we belong. I predict CBJ and staff will pull in some more 4s and maybe a 5 or two. CBJ has a proven track record of winning and I for one believe that he will finish the recuiting period strong and we will be ok (not top 10, but top 20).

    Enjoy the debates and enjoy looking at stats and getting others opinions on this site! Makes me a better informed VFL and makes me feel more of a part of the Vol Nation!

    This post was edited by UTBooter on 12/22/2012 at 8:37 AM

    UTBooter ●

  • Coach85 said...

    So 14 of the 32 NFL first rounders were 3stars or less coming out of high school. The piece stated that around 300 4-5star guys come out of high school every year. So, thanks for proving to me that stars mean very little. If anything, that piece reassured my stance on stars, they mean very little.

    What we are all dancing around is the numbers involved. It is something that has been pointed out on this site in the past and something I have believed for years. If coach85's numbers are correct then each year there are approximately 300 4 and 5 star players available. You then take the top twenty five ranked teams and divide 25 into 300 and you get 12 total for 4 and 5 star players with the 5 stars accounting for only 2 of the twelve at maximum. When you factor academic qualifying and other factors it narrows the field even more. There is an even greater thinning of these players when you expand to teams outside the top 25. What this points out is that 4/5 star players are important but when filling out a recruiting roster of approximately 25 players every year it is critical that coaches have the ability to find and coach up those 3 star and below players because they will constitute the bulk of your team. Once you have done that and the critical factor of 'coaching them up' has taken place you can begin to add a higher percentage of the 4 and 5 star players like the Bama's and Florida's and so on. No matter how you slice and dice it takes keen evaluation skills and great coaching to get to that level. In our recruiting hay day under Phil these numbers would probably be reflected in the classes he brought in. Bottom line...don't diss the 3 stars it's going to be about the evaluation and coaching. Dooley could evaluate but not coach. Let's hope Butch can do both.

    tnbear66

  • UTBooter said...

    Agree with you with one caviot. Per 247 ratings there are only 28 5-star high school football players in the current class, while there are around 250 or so 4-star and MANY, MANY more 3-stars. So the odds are that you will see quite alot of 3-stars and maybe below make the NFL because there are MANY, MANY more of them. So, as Ryan stated I do believe they mean something and if I were a college coach, or fan I would give them credence. They are compiled by folks that know alot more than the average fan when it comes to judging talent, and the composite 247 is even a better weighted system as it takes in more than just one systems/sites rankings.

    Do they mean that if you dont get one or two of the 5-stars or 5-10 4-stars you are doomed,No, but the top teir teams do each and every year. Just look at the 247 board and you will see that is a fact. We are not there right now as many have pointed out. So we let CBJ and staff get who than can and who they feel are the best players to FIT in their system this year and hope they coach them up and start us on the road back to where we belong. I predict CBJ and staff will pull in some more 4s and maybe a 5 or two. CBJ has a proven track record of winning and I for one believe that he will finish the recuiting period strong and we will be ok (not top 10, but top 20).

    Enjoy the debates and enjoy looking at stats and getting others opinions on this site! Makes me a better informed VFL and makes me feel more of a part of the Vol Nation!

    You must type faster than me.lol +1

    tnbear66

  • tnbear66 said...

    What we are all dancing around is the numbers involved. It is something that has been pointed out on this site in the past and something I have believed for years. If coach85's numbers are correct then each year there are approximately 300 4 and 5 star players available. You then take the top twenty five ranked teams and divide 25 into 300 and you get 12 total for 4 and 5 star players with the 5 stars accounting for only 2 of the twelve at maximum. When you factor academic qualifying and other factors it narrows the field even more. There is an even greater thinning of these players when you expand to teams outside the top 25. What this points out is that 4/5 star players are important but when filling out a recruiting roster of approximately 25 players every year it is critical that coaches have the ability to find and coach up those 3 star and below players because they will constitute the bulk of your team. Once you have done that and the critical factor of 'coaching them up' has taken place you can begin to add a higher percentage of the 4 and 5 star players like the Bama's and Florida's and so on. No matter how you slice and dice it takes keen evaluation skills and great coaching to get to that level. In our recruiting hay day under Phil these numbers would probably be reflected in the classes he brought in. Bottom line...don't diss the 3 stars it's going to be about the evaluation and coaching. Dooley could evaluate but not coach. Let's hope Butch can do both.

    Amen! Bottom line ... don't diss your 3 stars for they will make you or break you.

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    RockytopATL ●

  • RockytopATL said...

    Amen! Bottom line ... don't diss your 3 stars for they will make you or break you.

    You and I are in agreement.

    tnbear66

  • RockytopATL said...

    Amen! Bottom line ... don't diss your 3 stars for they will make you or break you.

    Truer words have never been spoken. I agree completely.

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    RunThruThe T ●

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    s0634sm ●

  • Coach85 said...

    So 14 of the 32 NFL first rounders were 3stars or less coming out of high school. The piece stated that around 300 4-5star guys come out of high school every year. So, thanks for proving to me that stars mean very little. If anything, that piece reassured my stance on stars, they mean very little.

    If you want to ignore the facts that's your decision. Spin it however you'd like. A 3-star player has less than a 1% chance of being drafted in the first round. A 5-star player has a 10% chance. It's impossible to logically conclude that stars mean very little when a 5-star player is ten times more likely to become a first round pick, when compared to a 3-star.

    volfan28

  • volfan28 said...

    If you want to ignore the facts that's your decision. Spin it however you'd like. A 3-star player has less than a 1% chance of being drafted in the first round. A 5-star player has a 10% chance. It's impossible to logically conclude that stars mean very little when a 5-star player is ten times more likely to become a first round pick, when compared to a 3-star.

    So what. There are 32 first rounders each year. In the overall scheme of thousands of NCAA football players they are a tiny part of the player population. The point of this whole discussion is, to me, that teams are made up of more 3 stars by far than by 4 and 5 stars. It's wonderful to get them and they can be difference makers but the backbone of a team are those guys who weren't ranked that high.

    tnbear66

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