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Challenge for the fire Dooley brigade.

  • Furthermore, anyone with half a brain knows Football is the lifeblood of the Athletic Dept. without a strong FB program the AD goes further in debt. So, the adage you have to spend money to make money is never more apparent.

    UTvol4life

  • hdrizzle21 said...

    Ha you are insane if you think Hart won't spend what he needs... Peterson does have a special situation in Boise, and I don't think he would come here. His son also has some disease, and it is best for his family to stay there. So I will forfeit Peterson, but Patterson would be #1 anyway.

    driz (and some others), part of what you don't get here is that Hart can't just spend what he wants. He asks Cheek; he asks the Board; and he asks the big donors for that kinda cash, and he's just flatly told, "No, Dave." What then?

    Hamilton was told "No, Mike," on two occassions when he did just that. The same people are now gonna say "Yes, Dave," just b/c Dave's a better AD?

    "Bravely taking to his feet, he beat a very brave retreat." Sir Robin's Minstrels.

    doberVol

  • OrangeNCarolina said...

    Oh, I see what you're doin' here. You are seeking solutions instead of just the gripin'. Novel idea. I'll stick with Dooley for now. GO VOLS!

    Yep; that's the idea.

    While it would be lunacy to fire Dooley mid-season, I'll admit that barring a big turnaround the rest of the way (and it is a LOOOONG way), an argument to fire Dooley can possibly be made. I may still very well be on the stay the course bandwagon barring another total collapse, but some folks won't address reality; they act like children in a candy store crying, "But I WANT it!"

    "Bravely taking to his feet, he beat a very brave retreat." Sir Robin's Minstrels.

    doberVol

  • ocoeerivervol said...

    This isn't a fire Dooley rant and I agree that the money may not be there for a "splash" hire, but rest assured, if attendance starts dropping below a certain point for home games, something will give, that much I can guarantee. Football is the cash cow for the entire university. I hope Dooley makes it, I REALLY do, but anyone that doesn't have a LITTLE doubt or concern that he's not the guy isn't being realistic with themselves.

    I wasn't on a "keep Dooley" rant w/my OP, either; I don't know that I disagree with what you wrote. To me, the jury is stil out. I just want some of the people who are just reactive in their thinking to see the whole process through, and have a realistic plan in place if they advocate firing.

    "Bravely taking to his feet, he beat a very brave retreat." Sir Robin's Minstrels.

    doberVol

  • WHY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THIS? Do you want to know what I saw last night? I saw a bunch of kids give up a game because two plays didn't go their way. Dooley can't go out there and play for them. It is not his fault

    coolkeeper

  • doberVol said...

    I wasn't on a "keep Dooley" rant w/my OP, either; I don't know that I disagree with what you wrote. To me, the jury is stil out. I just want some of the people who are just reactive in their thinking to see the whole process through, and have a realistic plan in place if they advocate firing.

    Oh, I agree whole heartily.

    ocoeerivervol

  • UTvol4life said...

    If you have a car that doesn't run or keeps tearing up, do you not fix it or get a new one?

    So . . . to take your metaphor/analogy and question to it's logical conclusion, in 2008, car one "tears up," and without having a more reliable car in mind, we trade for the 2009 Kiffin Ego, which also tears up, and after the second failed attempt to try to raise the money for a Bugatti Veyron, the "purchasing agent" for the company is told "no" again, and so buys a Camry which doesn't win many races but starts and hasn't run off and left us (and which does appear to be getting a little [not a lot] better).

    Hmm, I don't think this analogy works, does it?

    "Bravely taking to his feet, he beat a very brave retreat." Sir Robin's Minstrels.

    doberVol

  • coolkeeper said...

    WHY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THIS? Do you want to know what I saw last night? I saw a bunch of kids give up a game because two plays didn't go their way. Dooley can't go out there and play for them. It is not his fault

    But it is up to Dooley to ensure it doesn't happen again, whether that means having a come to Jesus meeting with them or changing some player personnel. Your right, Dooley can't make'em execute the plays correctly, but he doesn't have to let the one's that can't execute the plays correctly play either.

    ocoeerivervol

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    "Bravely taking to his feet, he beat a very brave retreat." Sir Robin's Minstrels.

    doberVol

  • coolkeeper said...

    WHY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THIS? Do you want to know what I saw last night? I saw a bunch of kids give up a game because two plays didn't go their way. Dooley can't go out there and play for them. It is not his fault

    We're talking about it because it's an internet forum and the discussion has already been joined by those who are advocating a coaching change. And because each and every one of us is frustrated as all get out that we played well enough to win for exactly 40 min. of a 60 min. game (which is 10 - 20 min. longer than we did last year against good opponents).

    You do raise a good question, though. How do you make a kid who's used to losing become mentally tough? It's a hard question, and I'm sure all of us and the coaching staff wish we had the answers.

    Don't lose your cool w/all those caps, coolkeeper. Sorry; couldn't resist. biggrin

    This post was edited by doberVol on 9/16/2012 at 5:04 PM

    "Bravely taking to his feet, he beat a very brave retreat." Sir Robin's Minstrels.

    doberVol

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    ocoeerivervol

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    hdrizzle21

  • doberVol said...

    So . . . to take your metaphor/analogy and question to it's logical conclusion, in 2008, car one "tears up," and without having a more reliable car in mind, we trade for the 2009 Kiffin Ego, which also tears up, and after the second failed attempt to try to raise the money for a Bugatti Veyron, the "purchasing agent" for the company is told "no" again, and so buys a Camry which doesn't win many races but starts and hasn't run off and left us (and which does appear to be getting a little [not a lot] better).

    Hmm, I don't think this analogy works, does it?

    That makes a lot of sense....lol. It's a basic concept in life, business, whatever. If something is broken you fix it or replace it. Whether its year zero or 1 or 2 or 20. Unfortunately there is no lemon law on hiring. It's a chance you take and one you have to in order to try and get ahead. This being scared of what might happen is a losers mentality and what a lot of UT fans have become.
    I will just say 0-11 vs ranked opponents, beating only Vandy and UK in conference and continually having the same issues/problems isn't going to cut it no matter who the coach is.

    UTvol4life

  • This post is for members of GoVols247 or All Access VIP members only. Start Free Trial

    "Bravely taking to his feet, he beat a very brave retreat." Sir Robin's Minstrels.

    doberVol

  • VolsBen said...

    Coaching was not the problem last night it was the players they gave up Bray was off the receivers were off and in return the defense wore down out of frustration drop balls interceptions and and big plays killed us the coaches can only do so much I don't care if nick saber were our coach if the players don't execute there not going to win in my opinion the coaches put them in place to win and the players didn't take advantage of it

    Coaching was the problem just not derek Dooley Jim Chaney has no business calling that many pass plays in the second half when we have the lead for most of it. when we mixed up the play calling using the run top set up the pass we were successful and move the ball.

    Puddin Gooden

  • hdrizzle21 said...

    That means absolutely nothing.

    The fact you refuse the facts makes it pointless debating. The University of Tennessee at Knoxville is not flush with cash. Football program was the golden goose, but it's not being laying those golden eggs the last few years. How many sellout crowds in the last 5 seasons? How's season ticket sales over that span? How's the US economy being the last 5 years too? Do you have the same income level you had 5 years ago? I don't and I've worked at the same place for almost 14 years. My salary was halved and I still do almost the same amount of work. Just because you think the University can afford it doesn't make it so. Just as well assume I have a spare 200k to donate to the University,it's the same difference.

    Tithulta

  • coolkeeper said...

    WHY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THIS? Do you want to know what I saw last night? I saw a bunch of kids give up a game because two plays didn't go their way. Dooley can't go out there and play for them. It is not his fault

    Amen!

    Tithulta

  • UTvol4life said...

    That makes a lot of sense....lol. It's a basic concept in life, business, whatever. If something is broken you fix it or replace it. Whether its year zero or 1 or 2 or 20. Unfortunately there is no lemon law on hiring. It's a chance you take and one you have to in order to try and get ahead. This being scared of what might happen is a losers mentality and what a lot of UT fans have become. I will just say 0-11 vs ranked opponents, beating only Vandy and UK in conference and continually having the same issues/problems isn't going to cut it no matter who the coach is.

    "If something is broken you fix it or replace it. Whether its year zero or 1 or 2 or 20". Unless you are trying to restore this "something" from what it is to glory that it has shown it can produce. Lets say you're talking about a car. You've had this car for 10 years and you love it. But one day, the car's transmission blows out. So what do you do ? You buy a new transmission. Then, this new transmission (which was suppose to be the newer top of the line model) drops onto the highway because it was never secured. So now you are out all this money and can't get the next big thing, so you take a chance with a brand you've never tried before. And yet again, the engine is acting up. Yet, you find out it is not the transmission, but its actually the other parts of the engine that suffered because the other transmissions did not do their jobs correctly. So now, you have to replace other parts, but it's going to take a while before they can be installed. But you can't go without a vehicle. So now you're driving a car that feels like it might fall apart at any minute, but you know, once the new parts come in, and are installed properly, the car has a chance to run smooth again.

    Long story short (sort of), you can't make a true assessment of this team until we've seen all this team has to offer. Also, throwing this 0-11 vs Ranked Opponents out there isn't fair, especially when you take into account everything that has happened the last 4 years.
    I didn't see Leonard Little, Al Wilson, Albert Haynesworth, Dwayne Goodrich, Shaun Ellis, Terry Fair, Deon Grant, or Eric Berry on the field last night. Our secondary is not that talented or fast. We are not truly a rankable team yet, and haven't been for a while. Should we have pulled an upset over the last couple year ? Sure. But the ranked teams we're playing are not the UCLA's, TCU's, or Arizona's of the nation. We're playing the defending champions of the last 6 seasons. Not the same. And we're not the same Tennesee. Give them a chance. Lets see how we fair against UGA, MSU, and USCe. Then we can make a better assessment.

    signature image

    1 Corinthians 16:13 Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.

    DownTheField

  • UTvol4life said...

    That makes a lot of sense....lol. It's a basic concept in life, business, whatever. If something is broken you fix it or replace it. Whether its year zero or 1 or 2 or 20. Unfortunately there is no lemon law on hiring. It's a chance you take and one you have to in order to try and get ahead. This being scared of what might happen is a losers mentality and what a lot of UT fans have become. I will just say 0-11 vs ranked opponents, beating only Vandy and UK in conference and continually having the same issues/problems isn't going to cut it no matter who the coach is.

    Well, lol, I'm not sure your idea of good business is the same as mine. Both my wife and I work in some form of business, and I know that while making a change for the better might be DESIRED, if you can't AFFORD to make that change right now, you save up and wait until you CAN afford it to do something, unless you are pretty darn confident you can make a significant improvement with what you can afford NOW.

    Our situation could be worse; we might beat UGA in a couple weeks for all we know, or if not, South Carolina. At this point, who knows?

    Who you gonna get for the money that'll be better? Saying "What's going on now doesn't cut it" isn't gonna cut it when comes to solving the problem. We've all, to a person, seen what the problems are, but the question is the best course of action to take going forward. Fire the coach is only a plan if you have a better hire in your plan, which takes into account another recruiting hit you'd take, the 3rd in 5 years.

    I'm sorry, but just keeping on hiring new coach after new coach after new coach until you luck out and finally get out that works is no more of a plan than keeping a bad one and hoping he improves (in fact, I think the latter bad plan is slightly preferable to the first).

    And finally, we don't have the "same issues and problems," at least to the same extent. As John Wilkerson said on the broadcast last night, there is still a gap between us and the elite teams in the conference, but the gap has been closed. In all honesty, do you not think this year's team is any better than the '11 version? We're running the ball better, throwing it better, and while the defense is obviously still pretty confused by what Sunseri wants them to do, understanding the new scheme will improve with time.

    As much as sitting in that stadium (w/a bad back, no less) hurt last night, the bottom line is that I still think we matched up better w/them physically than we have in years, even though UF's better than reported. Am I "happy" or "satisfied" with the progress after that loss? No. But do I see some progress nonetheless? Yes. Have we improved the team through recruiting? Yes. I am not yet convinced that all is lost.

    "Bravely taking to his feet, he beat a very brave retreat." Sir Robin's Minstrels.

    doberVol

  • DownTheField said...

    "If something is broken you fix it or replace it. Whether its year zero or 1 or 2 or 20". Unless you are trying to restore this "something" from what it is to glory that it has shown it can produce. Lets say you're talking about a car. You've had this car for 10 years and you love it. But one day, the car's transmission blows out. So what do you do ? You buy a new transmission. Then, this new transmission (which was suppose to be the newer top of the line model) drops onto the highway because it was never secured. So now you are out all this money and can't get the next big thing, so you take a chance with a brand you've never tried before. And yet again, the engine is acting up. Yet, you find out it is not the transmission, but its actually the other parts of the engine that suffered because the other transmissions did not do their jobs correctly. So now, you have to replace other parts, but it's going to take a while before they can be installed. But you can't go without a vehicle. So now you're driving a car that feels like it might fall apart at any minute, but you know, once the new parts come in, and are installed properly, the car has a chance to run smooth again.

    Long story short (sort of), you can't make a true assessment of this team until we've seen all this team has to offer. Also, throwing this 0-11 vs Ranked Opponents out there isn't fair, especially when you take into account everything that has happened the last 4 years. I didn't see Leonard Little, Al Wilson, Albert Haynesworth, Dwayne Goodrich, Shaun Ellis, Terry Fair, Deon Grant, or Eric Berry on the field last night. Our secondary is not that talented or fast. We are not truly a rankable team yet, and haven't been for a while. Should we have pulled an upset over the last couple year ? Sure. But the ranked teams we're playing are not the UCLA's, TCU's, or Arizona's of the nation. We're playing the defending champions of the last 6 seasons. Not the same. And we're not the same Tennesee. Give them a chance. Lets see how we fair against UGA, MSU, and USCe. Then we can make a better assessment.

    Awesome post, and better illustration of what I was trying to say than mine, above.

    Nothing to add; preach on. clap

    "Bravely taking to his feet, he beat a very brave retreat." Sir Robin's Minstrels.

    doberVol

  • I'd like to credit dober for one of the best series of posts you'll ever see a fan make in the aftermath of a disappointing loss.

    This is beat-writer-quality logic, and it accurately in many ways dissects UT's current situation.

    I wish we had a prize to give away. I would do it. This post is so dead on the freakin' money that I'll just sit here and tip my cap.

    Saying you need to get rid of a coach is the easy part. Coming up with department-specific solutions is the hard part.

    This isn't a political campaign. You can't just say why the other guy's ideas suck. You have to say why your ideas would work better than his, and you have to assess the issues the same way those in charge have to assess it.

    Post. Was. Awesome.

    signature image

    Senior Writer, govols247 Email: wrucker@247sports.com Twitter: www.twitter.com/@wesrucker247 Facebook: www.facebook.com/wesrucker247

    Wes Rucker

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    ocoeerivervol

  • Dober ... can you wear a long-sleeved T-shirt, size XL? I will send one to you. I have the boxed and shipping labels and everything.

    It's the only extra thing I have laying around that would qualify as a prize? I have like three of them that are the same thing, and I haven't worn one of them. Honestly, not once.

    Posts like this should be rewarded. That was completely logical — perhaps not 100 percent accurate, but right there in the ballpark. Wasn't overly negative or overly optimistic. It was logical and awesome.

    I feel like the opposite of the judge that slammed Billy Madison in the academic decathlon thingy.

    We are all better for having read that.

    signature image

    Senior Writer, govols247 Email: wrucker@247sports.com Twitter: www.twitter.com/@wesrucker247 Facebook: www.facebook.com/wesrucker247

    Wes Rucker

  • doberVol said...

    Well, lol, I'm not sure your idea of good business is the same as mine. Both my wife and I work in some form of business, and I know that while making a change for the better might be DESIRED, if you can't AFFORD to make that change right now, you save up and wait until you CAN afford it to do something, unless you are pretty darn confident you can make a significant improvement with what you can afford NOW.

    Our situation could be worse; we might beat UGA in a couple weeks for all we know, or if not, South Carolina. At this point, who knows?

    Who you gonna get for the money that'll be better? Saying "What's going on now doesn't cut it" isn't gonna cut it when comes to solving the problem. We've all, to a person, seen what the problems are, but the question is the best course of action to take going forward. Fire the coach is only a plan if you have a better hire in your plan, which takes into account another recruiting hit you'd take, the 3rd in 5 years.

    I'm sorry, but just keeping on hiring new coach after new coach after new coach until you luck out and finally get out that works is no more of a plan than keeping a bad one and hoping he improves (in fact, I think the latter bad plan is slightly preferable to the first).

    And finally, we don't have the "same issues and problems," at least to the same extent. As John Wilkerson said on the broadcast last night, there is still a gap between us and the elite teams in the conference, but the gap has been closed. In all honesty, do you not think this year's team is any better than the '11 version? We're running the ball better, throwing it better, and while the defense is obviously still pretty confused by what Sunseri wants them to do, understanding the new scheme will improve with time.

    As much as sitting in that stadium (w/a bad back, no less) hurt last night, the bottom line is that I still think we matched up better w/them physically than we have in years, even though UF's better than reported. Am I "happy" or "satisfied" with the progress after that loss? No. But do I see some progress nonetheless? Yes. Have we improved the team through recruiting? Yes. I am not yet convinced that all is lost.

    I'm no advocating firing anyone right now. Nothing good will come with firing mid season. You have to give look at year end. But I stand by the fact we can't endure another year of what we've had. Financially a weak football program is doom for the whole AD. A mediocre year and fans will just not be enthused about having him back and then sales suffer and so on. We've already overhauled the car this past offseason by replacing a lot of parts. Most expect results and expect them soon....whether its fair or not. I also think he has to win at least one of the three against USCe, UGA and Bama regardless of the final record. JMO.

    UTvol4life

  • Wes Rucker said...

    Dober ... can you wear a long-sleeved T-shirt, size XL? I will send one to you. I have the boxed and shipping labels and everything.

    It's the only extra thing I have laying around that would qualify as a prize? I have like three of them that are the same thing, and I haven't worn one of them. Honestly, not once.

    Posts like this should be rewarded. That was completely logical — perhaps not 100 percent accurate, but right there in the ballpark. Wasn't overly negative or overly optimistic. It was logical and awesome.

    I feel like the opposite of the judge that slammed Billy Madison in the academic decathlon thingy.

    We are all better for having read that.

    100% Agree. Great post Dober.

    signature image

    1 Corinthians 16:13 Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.

    DownTheField

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