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Challenge for the fire Dooley brigade.

  • UTvol4life said...

    We've already overhauled the car this past offseason by replacing a lot of parts. Most expect results and expect them soon....whether its fair or not.

    But we have to leave room for the defense to truly implement itself. It's more complex, and I don't think Sal plans on dumbing it down. He wants these kids to get it and understand it, as is. We should improve every game. Especially with communication, which seemed to be the main culprit.

    signature image

    1 Corinthians 16:13 Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.

    DownTheField

  • DoberVol from downtown, no doubt. That's why at least two old beat writers pay to participate.

    It's the reason I spend time around here.

    This post was edited by Chartervol on 9/16/2012 at 6:23 PM

    Chartervol

  • Well, I made the drive to Knoxville Friday and came home this afternoon to Gastonia, NC. I have spent thousands of dollars on the University of Tennessee and Knoxville's economy over the years as have most of you. The fact that most of us are actually PAYING hard earned cash to read news about a football/basketball program shows how dedicated we all are.

    As I made the trip home today, I had a lot of time to reflect on yesterday. I was so heartbroken over that loss yesterday and was emotional. As far as I was concerned, the whole team could have been disassembled and it wouldn't have mattered.

    With that said, my children haven't gone hungry necessarily because of my obsession with UT Athletics, but we embrace them as a family. My family all gather and watch games together and pull for Tennessee. You, and Bear Bryant, may consider me pathetic, but I love college football, and LOVE the Big Orange. My oldest son (I have 4 children) is 7 years old. He knows our biggest rival is Florida (I know that's debatable, but we consider UF the biggest rival because we have friends that are Gator fans). He is waiting to see his FIRST Tennessee win against the hated Gators! Think about that! His FIRST win. This is getting embarrassing guys! I know these are kids, but they are being rewarded handsomely to play ball. Dooley is being VERY well compensated for his efforts.

    I don't want to be the "Fire Dooley Guy" but let me ask you a question. After 3 years, stop asking why should we fire him and ask, what has he done to earn another season. We haven't beat a freaking ranked team! He didn't even have a winning record at his previous job. We were embarrassed on national TV and I have a feeling it'll happen again this year. All I'm saying is, why in the world, other than finances and recruits, would we give him another year?

    C Ewing

  • Let's recall the last time we replaced a Fine Young Man with a Proven Coach. We brought JT Majors in right off a national championship season that featured a Heisman tailback. Majors was a rock star when he hit Knoxville. And a Vol to boot!

    At precisely the same stage Dooley is in his rebuilding job, Majors' 79 team lost to Rutgers at homecoming and dope-rolled Notre Dame in a span of seven days. Three years later his Vols managed to lose to Duke and Vanderbilt and beat Alabama in the same year.

    Patience, everyone. Proven Coaches don't come out of a multimillion-dollar vending machine, and even when you find one there are no guarantees.

    Chartervol

  • Wes Rucker said...

    Dober ... can you wear a long-sleeved T-shirt, size XL? I will send one to you. I have the boxed and shipping labels and everything.

    It's the only extra thing I have laying around that would qualify as a prize? I have like three of them that are the same thing, and I haven't worn one of them. Honestly, not once.

    Posts like this should be rewarded. That was completely logical — perhaps not 100 percent accurate, but right there in the ballpark. Wasn't overly negative or overly optimistic. It was logical and awesome.

    I feel like the opposite of the judge that slammed Billy Madison in the academic decathlon thingy.

    We are all better for having read that.

    My size exactly. Thank you kindly, Wes.

    "Bravely taking to his feet, he beat a very brave retreat." Sir Robin's Minstrels.

    doberVol

  • Chartervol said...

    Let's recall the last time we replaced a Fine Young Man with a Proven Coach. We brought JT Majors in right off a national championship season that featured a Heisman tailback. Majors was a rock star when he hit Knoxville. And a Vol to boot!

    At precisely the same stage Dooley is in his rebuilding job, Majors' 79 team lost to Rutgers at homecoming and dope-rolled Notre Dame in a span of seven days. Three years later his Vols managed to lose to Duke and Vanderbilt and beat Alabama in the same year.

    Patience, everyone. Proven Coaches don't come out of a multimillion-dollar vending machine, and even when you find one there are no guarantees.

    wish i had an upvote
    +1

    Tithulta

  • doberVol said...

    We're talking about it because it's an internet forum and the discussion has already been joined by those who are advocating a coaching change. And because each and every one of us is frustrated as all get out that we played well enough to win for exactly 40 min. of a 60 min. game (which is 10 - 20 min. longer than we did last year against good opponents).

    You do raise a good question, though. How do you make a kid who's used to losing become mentally tough? It's a hard question, and I'm sure all of us and the coaching staff wish we had the answers.

    Don't lose your cool w/all those caps, coolkeeper. Sorry; couldn't resist. biggrin

    Lol +1 I can't lose my cool that would go against my name biggrin

    coolkeeper

  • doberVol said...

    Unlike what Clay Travis apparently thinks, there is no fairy UT-funded Brinks truck growing out of his butt for him to back up to prospective coaches [insert your own non-family-friendly joke at this point], so . . .

    Here's a challenge for the fire Dooley camp. Let's play some fantasy coaching search! Here are the rules, based on fact and reality, not fantasy (irony intended):

    You are the AD! Wouldn't you just love to be the AD, so you can do what you want and fix all those problems you know how to fix so well? Here's your chance! Only this challenge is based on the real world, and accepting that we are where we are.

    You have approval from the Board and Jimmy the Cheek to make a coaching change. [Yay! You can fire that outcoached, never-beaten-a-ranked-team embarrassment, Dooley. You demand excellence and refuse to accept mediocrity!]. However:

    1. You have only between $1.5 and $1.99 million per year to hire him.

    Why no carte blanche, blank check, Clay Travis Brinks truck authority?

    . . . Because your two single-biggest program donors, Jim Haslam and Thunder Thornton, have told you they are not going to bankroll a coach's salary since Kiffin left, and in any event, Jim, Mr. Pilot oil himself, has a bit of a cash flow problem at present himself, having just bought the frikkin' Cleveland Browns!

    . . . Because right now, your own athletic department has hemorraghing money, paying Fulmer, Pearl, spending hundred of millions of dollars on facilities improvements, and not enough cash on hand to make the signing payment to a "splash" candidate like a Stoops, Saban, Cowher, Gruden, or the like.

    . . . Because the good news is that, while we reportedly reached out to both Cowher and Gruden in the last two coaching searches, and they didn't flatly say no, they did reportedly quote $6-$8 million a year as the hiring price, with a huge guaranteed number of years (a minimum of 6 years, and I've heard up to 8-10) and there's now way in hades the Board would approve that kind of expenditure, absent an "anonymous donor" paying the way.

    . . . Because your anonymous donor won't be Peyton Manning, either. [Really? Did you think he'll agree to pay a guaranteed $50 million for UT to have a coach?]

    2. The coach you hire must have nine wins, with one of the nine over UF, UGA or Bama, by year three, or the rabid fan base will demand the ouster of not only the new coach, but you, too!

    3. Who ya gon' hire? Three names on your AD's "short list," with believable arguments as to why you believe they'd both come to UT and be available for the money you have to spend.

    Remember, this is not "utopia coach" or "perfect world" coach; this is "fantasy coach," where everyone can't have all the players, i.e., the coach, he wants, and the fact all of us wants to have all the money Florida and Alabama has doesn't make it so.

    4. "Oh, so you just want to accept losing?" is not an answer; neither is "Well, we need to do something, even if it's wrong,"; nor are insults about me and/or my mother.

    Caveat: You CAN hire a coach for $6 mill. per year and 8 yrs. guaranteed if YOU agree to pay his salary. You in?

    Names and arguments as to why they'd work, please. Step up to the plate, fire Dooley peeps, and git 'er done!

    I'm not in favor of firing Dooley either because frankly I don't think there is a coach out there, but I do want to put my opinion in about paying a named coach. Alabama got away with hiring Saban for 4 million and we see how that is going for him. I have no idea what the finances of the athletic dept are but I do know that Alabama is not having any problems funding theirs now.

    So 6 million for 6 years is not a bad deal if the ROI is 2 NC in 5 years. Now the question is are we Alabama can we recruit like Alabama and USC I'm not sure we can anymore. That is something we lost years ago so we're here with what we have and we all need to support that regardless of what our own thoughts are.

    I still say they need to come out and publicly state that Dooley will be here for 2 years or more so that he can recruit on an even playing field and not have the 'hot seat" thrown at him all the time because he is not out recruiting hardly anyone right now.

    signature image signature image signature image

    Best thing to come out of Alabama: I-59 North

    IH8Bama ●

  • Chartervol said...

    Let's recall the last time we replaced a Fine Young Man with a Proven Coach. We brought JT Majors in right off a national championship season that featured a Heisman tailback. Majors was a rock star when he hit Knoxville. And a Vol to boot!

    At precisely the same stage Dooley is in his rebuilding job, Majors' 79 team lost to Rutgers at homecoming and dope-rolled Notre Dame in a span of seven days. Three years later his Vols managed to lose to Duke and Vanderbilt and beat Alabama in the same year.

    Patience, everyone. Proven Coaches don't come out of a multimillion-dollar vending machine, and even when you find one there are no guarantees.

    ^^^ Perfect.

    signature image

    1 Corinthians 16:13 Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.

    DownTheField

  • What would cost the program more paying a coach $6 million a year, or an average attendance of 75,000?

    signature image

    http://twitter.com/Volocaust

    VolPett ●

  • VolPett said...

    What would cost the program more paying a coach $6 million a year, or an average attendance of 75,000?

    Dunno, but I bet some teams would love to average 75K per season...
    Assume $35 a ticket , that 2.6 mil per home game in ticket sales, that's not profit, that gross ticket sales. We have no idea what the utilities and upkeep cost, but I bet it eats into that 2.6 mil pretty heavily. lets not forget paying salaries and im not just talking about the coaches. There is a small army that run the athletics at UT. Remember ticket sales pay for everything even other sports...

    The size and scope of UT is so outside my knowledge its not even funny. Closest i can come to it is Booksamillion, I was aco manager once upon a time and went to thier home office. Was eye opening in understanding how a business is run from the top down. Most of us only get the bottom up view, all we can do is talk big like we know what to do. Let Dave Hart handle it, he has all this info we lack and a understanding we can never get. At least not without knowing everythign Hart does.

    Tithulta

  • Tithulta said...

    Dunno, but I bet some teams would love to average 75K per season... Assume $35 a ticket , that 2.6 mil per home game in ticket sales, that's not profit, that gross ticket sales. We have no idea what the utilities and upkeep cost, but I bet it eats into that 2.6 mil pretty heavily. lets not forget paying salaries and im not just talking about the coaches. There is a small army that run the athletics at UT. Remember ticket sales pay for everything even other sports...

    The size and scope of UT is so outside my knowledge its not even funny. Closest i can come to it is Booksamillion, I was aco manager once upon a time and went to thier home office. Was eye opening in understanding how a business is run from the top down. Most of us only get the bottom up view, all we can do is talk big like we know what to do. Let Dave Hart handle it, he has all this info we lack and a understanding we can never get. At least not without knowing everythign Hart does.

    Talking about ticket prices...check the tax...14.25%.....that is a big chunk of change.
    Ma

    tnmavol

  • tnmavol said...

    Talking about ticket prices...check the tax...14.25%.....that is a big chunk of change. Ma

    yup and the University doesnt see a penny of it,im not sure how much the state funds UT, but I bet the recoup alot in taxes.

    It's kind of like gas prices, we al grouch about paying 3.70 a gallon( or whatever it happens to be) there is that gasoline tax we pay on every gallon. Government takes in $$$$$ in taxes on gas that rivals the oil companies profits.

    Tithulta

  • "University of Tennessee Athletics is slashing $5 million from its operating budget this year as it grapples with a projected drop in ticket revenue and a significant hit to reserves after overspending in the last fiscal year."

    .

    signature image

    http://twitter.com/Volocaust

    VolPett ●

  • Congrats dobervol on getting props from Wes. The thread was outstanding and the discussion was mostly civil.

    BUTCH IS NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART. GO VOLS!

    OrangeNCarolina ●

  • tnmavol said...

    Talking about ticket prices...check the tax...14.25%.....that is a big chunk of change.
    Ma

    Don't know how much of that ticket tax goes to the state; Knoxville makes a ton, for which we get a Cumberland Avenue that looks like Fallujah, and of course the horse's ass KPD.

    Chartervol

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    WVa Vol

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    IrrationalUTfan

  • RockytopATL said...

    It doesn't? Did you read it? The AD lost $4 million last year. I saw another story (on KNS) that the AD's reserves totaled $5 million.

    So another year like the last one and we are pretty much broke.

    Drizz, we ain't the government. We can't print money to spend that we don't have. Nor, despite popular wisdom, can we go to Haslam or Thornton and ask them to write a big check to hire your favorite coach.

    Reality is a bitch. You really ought to try living in the real world for a change.

    We had a deficit because of all the new construction. The largest one (I assume the new football training facility was the largest) is now complete and UT will be back on the black next fiscal year. Its like the old saying goes you got to spend money to make money. Hart and the people holding the purse strings at UT understand that.

    I'm not in the fire Dooley camp just yet, but when the cash cow is sick, you better get her to the Vet quick or you might just lose the farm.

    DILLIGAF

  • DILLIGAF said...

    We had a deficit because of all the new construction. The largest one (I assume the new football training facility was the largest) is now complete and UT will be back on the black next fiscal year. Its like the old saying goes you got to spend money to make money. Hart and the people holding the purse strings at UT understand that.

    I'm not in the fire Dooley camp just yet, but when the cash cow is sick, you better get her to the Vet quick or you might just lose the farm.

    The financials for UTAD...will show we are paying the debt service on serveral projects including most of the parking garages on campus....we will not have all that paid for next year. It also shows funds going to other institutions outside of UTK....part of the bigger University. What may help UTAD a bit is that it is my understanding we do not owe any former Coach for a buyout.
    Story on the financials would be an eye opener. Also one on how TN higher funding works...it is different from other states. Support from appropriations has dropped from approx 70% to 30% with UT making up the difference with increases in tuition and more donations (including contributions from UTAD).
    ma

    tnmavol

  • Great thread. One of the reasons why I pay to come here. Great discussions, guys, keep it up!

    pepevol

  • UTvol4life said...

    That whole budget thing doesn't mean squat. The way this works is, BOT and Hart say we need a new coach. They then say it will cost this much to buy out the current coach and to get X coach it will cost this much. Then donor or donors X, Y and Z say ok here's a donation to cover the buyout and the Coach X, who they have already talked to, to "guage his interest". Now Dave Hart go Make it happen.

    If the budget didn't mean squat, then why did Dooley have to retain several coaches from Kiffin's staff? It's possible he wanted to keep them, but the rumors were that Cutcliffe turned TN down because he couldn't bring his entire staff. I think TN could pay more than $2 million whenever another coaching change is made, but I don't believe they will have a blank check.

    The Bubster

  • In my fantasy... Peyton Manning, Eric Berry, Arian Foster, Jerod Mayo, Denarius Moore, Jason Witten, Robert Meachem, Robert Ayers, Scott Wells, and Chad Clifton get together to form a financial support group. Then, I hire whoever the heck I want.

    volfan28

  • doberVol said...

    Unlike what Clay Travis apparently thinks, there is no fairy UT-funded Brinks truck growing out of his butt for him to back up to prospective coaches [insert your own non-family-friendly joke at this point], so . . .

    Here's a challenge for the fire Dooley camp. Let's play some fantasy coaching search! Here are the rules, based on fact and reality, not fantasy (irony intended):

    You are the AD! Wouldn't you just love to be the AD, so you can do what you want and fix all those problems you know how to fix so well? Here's your chance! Only this challenge is based on the real world, and accepting that we are where we are.

    You have approval from the Board and Jimmy the Cheek to make a coaching change. [Yay! You can fire that outcoached, never-beaten-a-ranked-team embarrassment, Dooley. You demand excellence and refuse to accept mediocrity!]. However:

    1. You have only between $1.5 and $1.99 million per year to hire him.

    Why no carte blanche, blank check, Clay Travis Brinks truck authority?

    . . . Because your two single-biggest program donors, Jim Haslam and Thunder Thornton, have told you they are not going to bankroll a coach's salary since Kiffin left, and in any event, Jim, Mr. Pilot oil himself, has a bit of a cash flow problem at present himself, having just bought the frikkin' Cleveland Browns!

    . . . Because right now, your own athletic department has hemorraghing money, paying Fulmer, Pearl, spending hundred of millions of dollars on facilities improvements, and not enough cash on hand to make the signing payment to a "splash" candidate like a Stoops, Saban, Cowher, Gruden, or the like.

    . . . Because the good news is that, while we reportedly reached out to both Cowher and Gruden in the last two coaching searches, and they didn't flatly say no, they did reportedly quote $6-$8 million a year as the hiring price, with a huge guaranteed number of years (a minimum of 6 years, and I've heard up to 8-10) and there's now way in hades the Board would approve that kind of expenditure, absent an "anonymous donor" paying the way.

    . . . Because your anonymous donor won't be Peyton Manning, either. [Really? Did you think he'll agree to pay a guaranteed $50 million for UT to have a coach?]

    2. The coach you hire must have nine wins, with one of the nine over UF, UGA or Bama, by year three, or the rabid fan base will demand the ouster of not only the new coach, but you, too!

    3. Who ya gon' hire? Three names on your AD's "short list," with believable arguments as to why you believe they'd both come to UT and be available for the money you have to spend.

    Remember, this is not "utopia coach" or "perfect world" coach; this is "fantasy coach," where everyone can't have all the players, i.e., the coach, he wants, and the fact all of us wants to have all the money Florida and Alabama has doesn't make it so.

    4. "Oh, so you just want to accept losing?" is not an answer; neither is "Well, we need to do something, even if it's wrong,"; nor are insults about me and/or my mother.

    Caveat: You CAN hire a coach for $6 mill. per year and 8 yrs. guaranteed if YOU agree to pay his salary. You in?

    Names and arguments as to why they'd work, please. Step up to the plate, fire Dooley peeps, and git 'er done!

    Why would you think Jim Haslam has a cash flow problem just because he bought the Cleveland Browns? It was a leveraged purchase to ensure he didn't have any cash flow issues.

    In addition, the NFL conducts a thorough financial audit of any potential owner to ensure there are no financial problems.

    I have no problem with the premise of your question but stop pulling assumptions out of thin air and saying this is real life. It's not.

    signature image signature image signature image

    RunThruThe T ●

  • doberVol said...

    Unlike what Clay Travis apparently thinks, there is no fairy UT-funded Brinks truck growing out of his butt for him to back up to prospective coaches [insert your own non-family-friendly joke at this point], so . . .

    Here's a challenge for the fire Dooley camp. Let's play some fantasy coaching search! Here are the rules, based on fact and reality, not fantasy (irony intended):

    You are the AD! Wouldn't you just love to be the AD, so you can do what you want and fix all those problems you know how to fix so well? Here's your chance! Only this challenge is based on the real world, and accepting that we are where we are.

    You have approval from the Board and Jimmy the Cheek to make a coaching change. [Yay! You can fire that outcoached, never-beaten-a-ranked-team embarrassment, Dooley. You demand excellence and refuse to accept mediocrity!]. However:

    1. You have only between $1.5 and $1.99 million per year to hire him.

    Why no carte blanche, blank check, Clay Travis Brinks truck authority?

    . . . Because your two single-biggest program donors, Jim Haslam and Thunder Thornton, have told you they are not going to bankroll a coach's salary since Kiffin left, and in any event, Jim, Mr. Pilot oil himself, has a bit of a cash flow problem at present himself, having just bought the frikkin' Cleveland Browns!

    . . . Because right now, your own athletic department has hemorraghing money, paying Fulmer, Pearl, spending hundred of millions of dollars on facilities improvements, and not enough cash on hand to make the signing payment to a "splash" candidate like a Stoops, Saban, Cowher, Gruden, or the like.

    . . . Because the good news is that, while we reportedly reached out to both Cowher and Gruden in the last two coaching searches, and they didn't flatly say no, they did reportedly quote $6-$8 million a year as the hiring price, with a huge guaranteed number of years (a minimum of 6 years, and I've heard up to 8-10) and there's now way in hades the Board would approve that kind of expenditure, absent an "anonymous donor" paying the way.

    . . . Because your anonymous donor won't be Peyton Manning, either. [Really? Did you think he'll agree to pay a guaranteed $50 million for UT to have a coach?]

    2. The coach you hire must have nine wins, with one of the nine over UF, UGA or Bama, by year three, or the rabid fan base will demand the ouster of not only the new coach, but you, too!

    3. Who ya gon' hire? Three names on your AD's "short list," with believable arguments as to why you believe they'd both come to UT and be available for the money you have to spend.

    Remember, this is not "utopia coach" or "perfect world" coach; this is "fantasy coach," where everyone can't have all the players, i.e., the coach, he wants, and the fact all of us wants to have all the money Florida and Alabama has doesn't make it so.

    4. "Oh, so you just want to accept losing?" is not an answer; neither is "Well, we need to do something, even if it's wrong,"; nor are insults about me and/or my mother.

    Caveat: You CAN hire a coach for $6 mill. per year and 8 yrs. guaranteed if YOU agree to pay his salary. You in?

    Names and arguments as to why they'd work, please. Step up to the plate, fire Dooley peeps, and git 'er done!

    http://www.coacheshotseat.com/SalariesContracts.htm
    A helpful resource for anyone trying to make the 1.5-1.9 million a year math to work. FYI, you'll need to scroll down quite a bit to find a coach that makes less than 1.5 million a year right now.

    IMO, there are only a few names within your restraints that look remotely appealing: Troy Calhoun, Guz Malzahn, and Jim Mora, Jr.

    Calhoun ($950K/yr) has won at Air Force, which is impressive for it being a service academy, but how well would he recruit in the SEC? His coaching history is all in the western part of the United States.

    Jim Mora, Jr. just arrived at UCLA, which means he's probably not going anywhere anytime soon for a slight pay raise (he currently makes 1.25 mil/yr). He also spent most of his coaching career out west, except for his stint with the Falcons. For those who want a coach without a losing record, you'd have to rule out Mora, who went 31-33 during his time in the NFL.

    Malzahn makes the least of the three mentioned at $800K/year. He's the least proven of the bunch as well. We know he's an excellent offensive coach, having literally written the book on no huddle offense. It'll be interesting to see how he fares with an Arkansas State squad that won 11 games last year.

    Are any of those guys better than Dooley? More importantly, are they so much better than him as to negate recruting and transfer attrition?

    Baugamania

Tennessee
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