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I'm sorry, but this post is completely ridiculous. So Dooley's second year recruiting class was also a a result of Kiffin? Did you even realize how ridiculous that was when you posted it or were you just blinded by your hatred for Dooley and blind love for Jones? What Dooley did in 2 1/2 weeks was nothing short of astounding. Rogers, Hunter, Stone were major gets that wouldn't have happened if Kiffin were still the coach. Way bigger than a guy offering a bunch of kids who were already committed to him at Cincy and adding a QB. I'll bet if Jones pulls a hell of a class next year you won't get on the board and give Dooley credit for the haul.
This post was edited by WVa Vol 17 months ago
Exactly what is it I do not get? I posted information I thought was interesting without comment. I find the behind the scenes workings to be fascinating and thought maybe some others might as well.
None of the reporters care if their info gets shared as long as its not a copy & paste of premium info and as long as they are given credit for the information.
It's better for their career if their info is shared and its better for their business.
And Dooley gets credit for CBJ's next class, too...
What's good for the goose is good for the gander...
In the future, please actually read what I write before shooting off with caustic comments like that. Actually, you might want to go back and look at my posting history and my prior comments on Dooley as well before making such misinformed and blatantly false allegations as well. When Kiffin was working on that 2010 class (Dooley's first), he had also been offering 2011 recruits, much as Jones and this staff started to do with the 2014 class before NSD '13. So when Dooley came into UT, he was dealing with 2 1/2 weeks to shore up Kiffin's 2010 class, and start looking at who Kiffin had targeted in 2011 and moving on from that point. I've never been a Dooley hater (GoVols2011 probably calls me the biggest Dooley homer, in fact), so your entire post is baseless and full of false allegations. I also never said that Kiffin gets credit for the 2011 class - what I said was that Kiffin had already started working on that class when he left. You can directly hold Dooley accountable for maybe 45% of the 2010 class, and probably 85% of the 2011 class (Kiffin hadn't put a ton of work into it at that point), but as Dooley's direct responsibility for each class went up, the overall ranking did go down.
@Popcorn Sutton: There is a HUGE difference between hiring a coach in December to complete a class (aka Kiffin in 2009 and Jones in 2013) and hiring a coach 2 1/2 weeks BEFORE NSD. There was no way in hell Dooley could have redone the entire class from scratch. Also, you overlook the fact that both Kiffin and Jones took over before the EEs arrived on campus, so they had time to actually decide whether they still wanted those players or not. Dooley arrived on campus with 2 1/2 weeks to complete a class largely established by Kiffin, and with 5-7 EEs already enrolled. I'm not saying that Dooley did a bad job with that 2010 class. But as his tenure went by, those 2011 and 2012 classes were not as good from a rankings perspective as that initial class which was largely inherited by Dooley.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by tntoak 17 months ago
So Fulmer hadn't offered any 2010 guys? Dooley hadn't offered any 2014 guys? I'm just saying if you are going to give Kiffin credit for Dooley's best 2 classes then you have to apply the same logic to everything else. You don't get to selectively choose who gets credit for what classes in order to make Dooley look bad. Just have some consistency in your logic.
Once again, you're inventing context from my comments. When Kiffin left, he had the 2010 class already in place and had started on 2011. Dooley did the majority of the work on 2011, but there were a couple of leads he followed from Kiffin. Not sure how you arrived at the conclusion that I'm "selectively" choosing which classes to give credit for, when I've mentioned all of them. I don't recall hearing anything about Dooley offering anyone from the 2014 class - although I know they had been looking at some of the 2014 legacy prospects (Kelly, the Berry Twins, Wharton). I also never said whether I thought Dooley was a good or bad recruiter - that's something you and WVA are claiming I said. What I did say was that as UT moved farther from the Kiffin era, the rankings of the recruiting classes declined. I pointed out a trend, but I made no assessment of Dooley's abilities based on that. What's up for debate is how much of that decline was due to coaching instability, the lack of a winning record, recruiting ability, lack of public support for Dooley following the Kentucky loss, etc. That's the part you seem to be consistently overlooking.
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I went back through your entire posting history and read all of your 5300 posts. Now that I'm fully informed, your assertion that Kiffin is responsible for any of Dooley's second year is still ridiculous. Well, I guess since Kiffin offered them that automatically means they were in the bag. 45%, 85% where do you come up with these numbers? You can try all the amateur lawyering you want (false allegations, get real?!?!) but a few people called you out for your post and now you're back tracking. Every coach is responsible for his own class. Anyway, here's to hoping Dooley's 2014 class is better than his 2013 class! Then, I guess it will be time for Butch to take over.
I'm not backtracking at all. For you to claim that Kiffin did absolutely no work on the 2011 class when he was here (or that Dooley completely threw out everything that had been worked on to date) is ludicrous. Dooley was behind the 8-ball because of when he took over the program, and to completely start from ground zero on the 2011 class would have been suicide. You're making these wild assumptions based on my comments that have no basis in reality, then calling me out for pointing out the logical inconsistency in your responses.
If a hs coach says he doesn't know anyone on the it staff hasn't heard from anyone on staff that's not an ppinion that's an indictment. What I'm looking at is dooleys last class this year which reflected no effort whatsoever. Defending Dooley on any level is well, indefensible. He is the worst coach on the Hill in my lifetime but hey, I'm only 67
It's logically inconsistent to say that Dooley brought in a few great recruits in the 2010 class? It's a HUGE leap in logic to say that Kiffin was at all responsible for Dooley's second class. No basis in reality... you're a funny guy.
he continued to tell Jay and Jones he was coming as well, until he changed his mind. So did Ford, until Auburn offered..
silent commitments are about like public commitments. until LOI is signed, mean nothing..
8 of our commitments signed elsewhere. 8 of our signees, were committed elsewhere at one point.
why I decided several years back when things started earlier to not follow too closely until last 2 weeks prior to NSD..
Hall FG, 1998
You're making the assumption that either a) Kiffin never even bothered to look beyond that 2010 class (which is proven wrong by the efforts Kiffin made to bring some of those 2011 UT targets to USC once he moved to LA), or that Dooley started over from scratch and ignored everything that had been done regarding that class prior to taking over the program. There's no question that Dooley gets credit for Hunter in that 2010 class, and even for keeping Jacques Smith on board. But you can't realistically expect Dooley to start from scratch and land that top-15 ranked 2011 class in 54 1/2 weeks when most schools started working on it a full year prior to that. The nature of recruiting now essentially mandates you look at least two years beyond the current class, which is why Jones has been offering 2014 and 2015 recruits (and looking towards the 2016 class as well) already.
So much changes for recruits every other week, let alone a year. Kiffin gets 0% credit for Dooleys 11' class, just like Dooley deserves 0% credit for Butches 14' class, IMO.
Exactly. Kiffin made a few offers before he left which means nothing. Those kids didn't come to UT because Kiffin started the process and Dooley just had to "fill in the blanks" like AK said in his OP. I'm done with the whole assertion that Dooley couldn't recruit. The guy was Saban's recruiting coordinator and pulled some very good talent while he was at UT. Discredit his on-field performance all you want but the guy recruited well while he was here. It's funny how the credit for recruiting is selectively applied when it can be twisted to fit a certain viewpoint. Like I posted earlier, I just hope Dooley's 2014 class is better than his 2013 class. +1
The OP's entire post was lifted verbatim from TOS and zero credit was given to the source.
I'm very disappointed that this thread was not nuked.
8 of Kiffins offers were enrolled and on campus the day that Dooley was hired with the 2010 class.
so one third of (8 of 24) of the kids who dressed out for first game, Kiffin got in school.
28 signed in that class but 4 of them didn't qualify and never played a down at Tennessee
Dooley could have recruited had he chose to. RC are titles for a little extra money. they do very little as Coach Azzanni said yesterday on the radio. They have a crack recruiting office that handles the details. the head coach, as I've had multiple RC's tell me, is the real RC in most cases
Your team. All the time.
I think you should go back and read the OP again
This is the problem with our fanbase. Some people refuse to acknowledge that Dooley did any good, whatsoever . If you can't do that then I can't take you seriously ... I don't care how old you are.
I'm sure Dooley was kind to small animals, maybe a good father. But not a good football coach. And he was lazy as a recruiter at least on his last class. You don't want to believe HS coaches. This will be my final comment to you. This from a Middle Tennessee sports writer, just yesterday. I asked him why the Ramsey kid from B'wood Academy disdained Tennessee so. He said that it wasn't that way. That Ramsey's parents were Florida fans and if he decommitted from USC he'd likely go to Florida. So he goes to Florida State, Florida's blood rival. In other words Tennessee was never even on the map for what is regarded as the best prospect in Tennessee. A cover corner that every team covets. So when I asked this writer, who has covered sports in Middle Tennessee for over 20 years, here is his reply. "That staff had a lot of ground to make up post-Dooley. I think they decided to salvage what they could this year and really hit it hard with this junior class." A lot of ground to make up. You go on thinking Dooley was a good recruiter. I think Dooley looked at the rock star money guys were making in coaching, and decided it'd be a long time before a lawyer could get into that tax bracket. He traded off of his name, hooked onto a star in Saban, got a gig at La Tech, and took this one when no one in the country you ever heard of would take it, cut himself the biggest sweetheart deal in SEC history, tried but was found wanting and way, way over his head in the SEC. Sailed into the sunset with a $5 million golden parachute and his doctor wife. It's is amazing to me he is actually working in coaching again, but will not ever be a HC at any D1 program worth his salt. Some people refuse to acknowledge that Dooley was totally out of his depth. If that is your real portrait, then, I understand.
100% emotion. Zero facts. How can you possibly lose? To say Dooley did absolutely no good thing for Tennessee is one of the most unintelligent things I have ever heard. I imagine you love listening to cattleman call into radio shows...
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