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I agree with Denver on this one. I don't revel in this at all, but this IS a black eye for the program, particularly with the high horse they try to depict with the families of recruits.
The facts are this - they have made their football program a higher priority and brought in some guys with questionable character to try to help them win more ballgames. This could happen at any program that chooses this path. But Vandy has always tried to say they do things differently in that respect and now they can no longer use that false portrayal.
I think most of us would agree here. There is problems in every program and people will take there shots at those programs. On a national level, it was handled the right way and handled quickly. Of course I'm not a CJF by any means, but we have all seen situations spin out of control due to a lack of quick decisions. He made the right ones in a concise manner.
There was no decision to make. There is video evidence of 4 Vandy football players gang raping a passed out girl.
I'm not giving Franklin a pat on the back for kicking them off the team.
"When we step on that football field, everyone flips a switch. And it's on..." - Butch Jones
I don't give Vandy any accolades except for the staff member who decided to uncover all this for police.
When they heard about it I am sure the police informed them of the seriousness of these allegations as well as evidence showing what had happened. I mean....what are they really going to do at that point other than kick them off the team?
I don't give them credit because they always tried to say they only recruit high character guys and it is now obvious they are no different than most any other program.
The same could be said for Penn St. and look what happened there. I'm not saying pat him on the back. Just pointing out that it could have been handled worse.
That's true. It could have have been handled worse, but that doesn't mean I'm giving any attaboys to someone taking the only reasonable course of action in response to a rape.
What I'm saying is that his bad decision to bring them on the team weighs a lot heavier than his decision to kick them off the team.
Agreed! And we have had our fair share of bashing for bad decisions on our players part. This is just one area I won't hold a coach responsible for. CJF, CDD, or any other coach for that matter. It wasn't a coach's fault for Hernandez and this wasn't CJF fault.
It's not directly his fault, but he brought them on campus and it sure flies in the face of EVERYTHING he preaches. That rat goes on and on about doing everything the right way and only wanting men of character, and the Vandy fans have bought it hook, line, and sinker.
The appalling part is they still buy it.
Absolutely right. We are all tired of hearing the words "high character" coming out of Vandy and CJF. I have to believe that some of the fan base see the truth now even though a lot are probably still buying that crap.
Edit: +1 on all your posts DV. Love a good conversation.
This post was edited by grunt_503rd 8 months ago
This was one of those few incidents that come about, where there is nothing anyone can do differently. It wasn't just simply observed or heard about...it was on a freaking video. The end, game over. No one should be congratulated on their "decision"...
Pray for the victim and her family.
Sick feelings in Nashville today.
People make bad decisions and there can be serious consequences for those actions.
The victim will have a difficult time moving forward.
As a Vanderbilt alum, I am pleased we were decisive and they are out of school.
There was no suspending or partially suspending waiting for the legal outcome.
I think Butch Jones would have handled the same way. Saban as well.
Can't say the same for Les Miles and Urban Meyer.
I put this on CJF. I mean all those arrest during Fulmers tenure got him the "Fulmer Cup". And Kiffin got the blame for his kids arrest, so hell yeah this goes on CJF 100% and parents should take notice of this, I mean, this is 1 step below murder in my book, no way my kid would play for CJF.
This post was edited by Vollogan33 8 months ago
I totally would allow my kid to play for any coach who does the right thing. Butch Jones included. CJF did everything right in hindsight. Butch Jones, Saban, Muschamp, etc would have done the same. It's the Les Miles and Urban Meyers that I wouldn't allow my son to play for.
I know the argument can be made to "pin it on CJF" for bringing in these kids, but each of these kids had a 100% clean background before this. Personal story: I know two of these guys and although I will never associate myself with them for a long long time, there was no warning of this. All four were clean guys up until this point. That's what is so shocking. Either they had been doing bad things for a while and hadn't gotten caught or this is just a total aberration of character for them. I was SHOCKED when Batey was one of the guys. He was always one of the really good guys at Ensworth.
I'm not trying to reduce their crime either. It is horrendously shocking what they did. But there was no warning and for that I just can't put blame on CJF.
I dont always beat Tennessee, but when I do I beat them badly.
Whether its right or wrong that CJF receives blame for this, and I personally don't know because I didn't know these guys in high school, he is still going to have to answer to recruit's mothers about the situation.
+1 on the fact that the University Admin did the right thing in the situation and didn't try to cover up or slap the wrist ala Penn State/LSU/Florida/OSU.
Heard on 3HL today. This is just sickening. Don't care who the program is or anything like that. Its wrong no matter who did it.
Only thing it means in my eyes is that James Franklin had a few bad eggs on the team. Hopefully for his sake they are the only ones. They definitely shouldn't be held responsible for anything. Not their fault 4 players made a dumb decision.
"Give him six" "We don't give a damn about the whole state of Alabama" "Grit N Grind"
Well, you need to give Phillip Fulmer credit for it, too, because he immediately kicked Nilo Silvan off our team when he was accused of rape, at a time he was a top NCAA sprinter, and one of the top return men in the nation. Like this case, the charges went before a grand jury (as often happens when the prosecution is trying to either deal with people who might abscond, or as here, when they don't want one side to claim they did nothing, or alternatively, have the other side claim they "had it in" for the defendants).
There, However, Nilo's grand jury returned a no-true bill, meaning they refused to indict. Folks, if you know the system, that is huge. It's akin to a finding of innocence, because the grand jury has to find there wasn't even probable cause (more likely than not) to believe a crime even occurred. And there's a saying in Tennessee, "A jury will indict a ham sandwich," on the assumption that hey, the dude or dudette'll get a trial, even after the indictment; they're innocent 'til proven guilty, right; and surely the nice prosecutor wouldn't have brought the case to the grand jury if there wasn't good cause to bind the accused over for trial.
It ruined his NFL dream at that point, and it turned out there was no proof he did anything short of the highly questionable word of his accuser.
Phillip had no choice under the circumstances, so don't get me wrong, but I've felt horribly sorry for that kid ever since. He got the same treatment from the school and his coach as these guys who were on film, and were indicted for multiple felonies. Real rape is horrible, but lying about rape can ruin the man for life, so though not AS bad, it's reprehensible, too.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by doberVol 8 months ago
"Bravely taking to his feet, he beat a very brave retreat." Sir Robin's Minstrels.
Hey breezy, I get where you are coming from but me not letting my kid play for CJF has to do with trust, now I know he can't keep an eye on everyone at all times BUT how could I as a parent leave my kid in the care of the man who told the 4 individuals parents he would take care of them, and for the next four years entrust their care to him. Now I know it's not his fault but he will get part of the blame. And just for the record my kid would not play for U.Meyer or lane Kiffin either.
My son could play for Butch Jones, Nick Saban, Mark Richt and James Franklin any day.
I would love to agree, but I don't remember this specific case which probably means I was too young at the time (just to show you my relative age I'm in college now playing baseball)
This post was edited by BreezyDore 8 months ago
Some might disagree with me, but I don't see how it falls on James Franklin. It's pretty obvious he's not condoning it at all. If he was they wouldn't have been thrown off the team.
These are kids that appeared to be good kids when they got their and did something that was wrong all on their own. How can anyone say that's Franklins fault?
I think if it was a common occurrence that kids got in trouble at Vandy then he could be held at fault, but this is the first time something has happened.
It just happens to be one of the worse things I've seen happen at any school in this state in very long time. Doesn't mean it's Franklins fault though. +1 for stopping by and being cival.
by the way, i'm not replying to myself, but as many here have said, i'm highly certain Butch Jones would have handled (though i truly hope he never has to) a situation like this in the same way. i grew up in Cincinnati and can tell you that folks there found him to be a real man, actually very similar to CJF in character and discipline, very proud of where he is, with high expectations and gr8 pride for those around him, here's to a REAL rivalry, where neither school steamrolls the other (though i hope VU wins just as i know you hope UT wins!), we respect each other, and our student athletes represent each and every one of us well...thanks to you for allowing me to post here and treating my thoughts with true southern courtesy, BEST TO ALL!!!!
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