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This will be my last post for a while......I am only going to use this to keep up with recruiting from now on. I see more and more people succumbing to the negativity side of things about the coaching staff and blaming everything on them.
There is no understanding about our situation for a lot of people anymore. So I am just going to throw this out there....
Why did Saban deserve to become LSU's coach? Record from MICH St. 6-5,6-6,7-5,6-6,9-2 before getting to LSU. Not exactly stellar and LSU was in better shape than we were. In Sabans third year as head coach he went 8-5 with a Bowl win. But yet he deserved more time lol. Dan Mullen Digressed in his third year going 7-6 with a bowl win. Yet he got a 4th year and look at them now. Spurrier is the ULTIMATE example:
7-5,8-5,6-6,7-6,7-6,9-5,11-2. Wow. After 5 seasons he didnt more than 8 games. And they were coached by Lou Holtz who made Notre Dame what it was in the 80's and 90's. His last 3 seasons with South Carolina were bad but still left them in much better shape for Spurrier than Fulmer and Kiffin ever did for UT. You guys kill me....
I am out.....
Comparing schools and coaches like that isn't correct each coach and school has its own set of problems. Saban took over a horrible lsu team yes they have great in state talent but come on gerry dinardo. I really don't think msu is a very good team they will lose a few this year. We made them look a lot better than they are. Also tn is not south carolina or msu we are a premiere school and program. Just can't compare it. If u wanna do that then look what saban did with bama in a couple of years. I'm looking for progress not just wins and if your truly honest with yourself we are going backwards. We don't do the little things correct. I notice stuff like that as do many others I'm sure but as a coach myself I can see when someone is losing the battle and coach dooley is losing my friend. Maybe we turn it around in the next couple of weeks if so great but if not we need to explore other options.
Why is it negative to point out coaches records and the product on the field and the desire to want to be better? I think it's worse to accept mediocrity and to an extent failure. JMO.
This post was edited by UTvol4life 18 months ago
Sorry Hack, you are flat out wrong. Why is it that when we talk about firing Dooley he is compared to other teams, but when it's the other way around the argument is not valid? Why do you think that other SEC schools aren't premier and we are? Is it because you're a fan of UT or is it because its the case? Cause it hasn't been the case for 14 years.
If you have somehow forgotten how bad we were the last 2 years and have twisted it in your head that we are going backwards, let me remind you that we got run out of the building by every halfway decent opponent we faced. Yea our defense ain't good, but dude it was baaaaaaaadddd last year.
Not gonna fall on my sword for Dooley, but I think that you are incorrect in your assessment.
I think I'm gonna follow the OP's lead here and check out for awhile. Giving away the free subscriptions has really brought down the quality of the board. And I don't mean you Hack. It's been going this way since July.
This is not accurate. Tennessee was like a team on probation when Dooley took over. SC and LSU were in better shape. Worse is the lack of leadership, in that we have lacked a strong Senior Class this season and last season. I'm not trying to make excuses, but all of the experts picked 8-4 as a ceiling for this team, with 7-5 being the most likely scenario. It takes time. The biggest thing is this. If we hire a new coach, that means yet ANOTHER new scheme, so, even if we kept most of our talent, and held onto a decent recruiting class, we're still looking at yet a new scheme that will require time. A 3rd defensive scheme in 3 seasons sounds like the perfect remedy. Don't you think? We all knew this would be painful to watch, but if you step off the ledge you will see that there is definite progress. I truly believe that Dooley was told by Hart after last season that he would have at least this season AND next season to turn it around or he wouldn't have hired a coach with a scheme that everyone knows takes two season to master. The thing that makes me the most angry is the way people turn on these players who are giving their all every week. we want them to make the mental leap to win these big games, yet we bash them on Twitter, Facebook and forums, when they are just college kids. We need to support this team and give them the best chance to succeed for the remainder of the season.
Your team. All the time.
I'm with you. I will monitor and maybe occasionally post but I can't allow negative things in my life if I have a choice...and I do. I love the Vols as much as anyone and have been a fan longer than 95% of the posters on this site. However, the Vols don't and will never rule my life to the point that they change who I am.
I think the major problem for Dooley is one of perception. He was an underwhelming hire at the time, he's had some horrible breaks(Bowl game, LSU, etc), and he hasn't given people any reason to believe in him. So for those of you who choose to look at him as "All-Vol" and focus on the positives, sure, maybe progress is being made and doggoneit if we just give him more time things will turn out great.
But for the rest of us, for people who questioned the hire initially, or are starting to become disillusioned with so much about Dooley's time here, it's really hard to give him the benefit of the doubt. The guy hasn't done anything tangible to deserve more time, and the fact that he doesn't seem to be well liked by many players or by his contemporaries in coaching is pretty concerning. Name me another coach who has ever had an exodus off his staff like Dooley did last year and managed to turn things around. I dunno, I hope he turns it around and everything turns out great, but anyone who feels great about this program right now is just doing it out of blind optimism.
Couldn't have said it better myself!
tnbear, I hope that you will continue to post even though you refrain from reading all the posts. Your posts are and have been some of my favorites. The board needs your opinions to balance out. I understand the frustrations being experienced by the fans and by the more senior posters on this board. I was so emotionally invested in the game last night that I felt physically sick during the game. After the game, I immediately felt physically better. And today I feel emotionally better. No poster or group of posters will change my perspective on the Vols. The kids and the coaches change from time to time but my support for Tennessee does not. GO VOLS!
BUTCH IS NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART. GO VOLS!
I understand VSC. Remember you can pick and choose whose posts you decide to read just by clicking the ignore button.(I'm sure my wife wishes she had that feature sometimes) Either way, stay true to the Orange and don't fret too much about things in which you have no control. Just love it for what it is. GO VOLS!
This post was edited by OrangeNCarolina 18 months ago
I don't get how everybody posts that 7-5 is a certainty. We are better than Troy and Ky and that gets us to 5, but MO and Vandy are a tossup. I figure we are a very small fav against MO and a dog to VU. We could lose both. we are just not very good in the clutch now. whether that is coaching or talent history will tell. My guess is we split the tossups and wind up 6-6.
hope we win those games esp Vandy b/c losing to them would be tough to take this year
I know why you posted this. You're unhappy with the experience you've had lately on the board, and you don't want to deal with it anymore. It's completely understandable.
It's also the same reason most of the negative posters you're talking about are posting. They've been unhappy with the UT football experience under Dooley and they don't want to deal with it anymore.
Losing sucks, for everyone. Hopefully we'll pull off an upset next weekend and brighten things back up.
Barring complete mental collapse, we should handle the last 4 teams on the schedule. Playing and losing games to teams in the BCS top 12, when you have chances to win late in those said games, is completely different from playing teams that have a noticeablely lower talent level than we do.
Senior Writer, govols247
This has been one of the more enjoyable threads to read through since last night. It is truly refreshing.
As far as comparing schools, I'm not going to address all the recruiting stats for LSU, Bama, MSU, USCe, or UF, but I am going to give you something to chew on when it comes to a specific period of Tennessee recruiting. (I realize this has been done before, but a fresh reminder never hurts):
Players who signed from 2007-2009 that did not pan out, was dismissed from the team, or transferred:
Nick Stephens (transfer)
Todd Campbell (transfer)
Montori Hughes (dismissed)
Bryce Brown (transfer)
Darren Myles (dismissed)
Janzen Jackson (dismissed)
Nu'Keese Richardson (dismissed)
David Oku (transfer)
Chris Donald (transfer ?)
Rolando Melancon (dismissed, and actually wound up at La Tech, and Dooley dismissed him from the team)
Rae Sykes (dismissed)
Ahmad Paige (transfer)
Josh Hawkins (quit)
Darris Sawtelle (transfer)
B.J. Coleman (transfer)
Tyler Maples (transfer)
William Brimfield (transfer)
Kenny O'Neal (transfer)
E.J. Abrams-Ward (dismissed)
Casey Kelly (drafted-MLB)
Preston Bailey (quit)
Stephaun Raines (dismissed)
Mike Edwards (dismissed)
Nick Lamaison (transfer)
Toney Williams (transfer)
29 out of 74 players, in 3 years, were dismissed, transferred, quit, or just never reached their potential (and that's not considering some of the players from those classes that are still on the team and have yet to make their stamp on this program, many 4*s).
That is nearly 40% !!!
It is literally as if we had an entire season of ZERO commitments. An entire year of no recruiting. In 2008, we had less commitments than players lost over that span (2008 - 19 commitments, 3 year span - 25 departures, at least)
Now, please, please do not try and say that Muschamp, Chizik, Saban, Spurrier (though his situation was much, much worse than the aforementioned coaches) or Mullen's situation even half way resembled that attrition and overall lost time/effort/resources/talent/depth/traction.
I'm sure someone will find something to nic-pic, but the fact of the matter is, IMO, that there is no comparison.
1 Corinthians 16:13 Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
+364 It's good to see posters on here who understand how a football program is rebuilt speaking up so eloquently. Especially one like Tennessee post-Kiffin that started from a bare bones, butt-ugly foundation. Please don't go away, VolFaninSC. We need more voices of reason.
No this isnt about being unhappy with the experience on the board. This is about more and more people having zero understanding anymore. More and more people are forgetting the hole Fulmer/Kiffin left us in after they left. I am a stats guy, and here are a few more.
We didnt have a full 85 roster scholarship limit until this year.
We are in a new defensive scheme.
We lost our top 2 tailbacks for the second half of MS st. game.
Is that a coaching problem? JMO, NO its not a coaching problem. I get that people are unhappy. I am not happy with losing. NO one in their right mind is 'happy' with losing. I am happy with seeing progress. A whole bunch of the negative people wanted to see progress in the running game and being in the game until the end. Guess what??????? The last 2 games on the road at night we have been underdogs. And we were in the game until the end.
I have said it before and will say it again. This not about accepting losing. It is not about being happy about losing. It is about understanding why we lost and NOT blaming it on coaching. I could see saying we got outcoached if we were in a 3rd year of a Justin Wilcox defense and losing. Our offense is keeping us in games. The defense is what is killing us, but you cant really expect anything different. You can hope for better play out of the defense but being a new scheme is what is killing us. You cant expect the players on defense to magically change what they have been taught in just 6 games.
I had high expectations for this team coming into this season. Seeing them progress is one of them. And the have progressed. I knew coming into this our Defense would be ranked in 90's maybe worse. But guess what? We are not getting blown out in the second half of games like we did in the 7 games we lost last season. And that is even with the new defensive scheme. Blame it on coaching all you want, but I point to Florida last season. They had a new defensive scheme and were horrible on defense. Second year they look great(it also helps that Meyer left muschamp in far better shape than kiffin left us).
Thanks for the spot on comments VolsfaninSC and Downthefield, they provide some much needed balance to the board in the wake of a gut-wrenching loss.
Means more new schemes, another lost recruiting class and there just isn't a lot to chose from for a new hire. (Don't give me no Chucky responses, you are dreaming) The succumbing to mediocrity comment somewhere above is malarkey (had to use that, I'm Irish). You cannot snap your fingers and get immediate results. We had isht for players when Dooley came on board. We have 2 of his recruiting classes in the system now (no...his one month of recruiting when he was hired does not count), I don't see anything but upside. Yep, he's a young coach relatively speaking and yes, he has a lot to learn but dayum, I fear the further destruction of our program with the results of another turnover moreso than I fear his ability to coach. If you want instant gratification there are quicker ways to that than following a rebuilding college football program (had to throw that in too ;) ). Making excuses for mediocrity? Hell no! Using some patience and a lot of toughness as this thing slowly is put back together again? Hell yes. Be tough y'all
Sorry! Seem to have responded to the wrong post. It's Monday. You know.
This post was edited by winchestervol63 18 months ago
Completely agree with you SC. To be honest, it's our world of instant gratification now. If we don't know something, we can just "google it" and get the answer. We're in a world that forgets the process that some things have to have in order to become better. There is such a process that goes into rebuilding a program like TN. Like it or not, we are rebuilding, no reloading like FL or other schools are.
People also want to compare Cuonzo and the bball program to Dooley and football. Again, completely different. Pearl didn't leave the program like Fulmer and Kiffin did. Fulmer and Kiffin left it on the decline, with losing seasons and a diminished roster. Pearl left bball on the up and up and improving, to where we were relevant. The only way we were relevant with Kiffin was in the media and him running his mouth, but not on the field.
I have high expectations, just as any other fan, but realistically, I just have to look for improvement from year to year, which we've seen. I've also seen better adjustments throughout the game, which is improved from last year. Prime example is how the defense adjusted and showed up more in the 2nd half, compared to the first. The same can be said in the GA game.
We can't expect this forever, but Dooley and Co are at least due the respect of having next year to prove their worth. I'm starting to agree with people that we have to most unrealistic fan base around.
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.
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