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My only thought is, Dooley's 1st team went to a Bowl and progressively got worse. Jones has more depth but, better coaching will equal more wins and better recruiting.
Good article Ghost.
I agree with some of this and disagree with some too. Just because you have bodies in a position does not mean you have talent at that position.
You give Jones the advantage at RB... really Tauren Poole may have been 4th string but he is playing NFL ball for the Carolina Panthers. If you recall he was great right from the start.
WR- Denarius Moore and Gerald Jones were excellent route runners that were probably the most underrated WR's in the NCAA. Moore is also Playing on Sunday for the Oakland Raiders... again I would lean the advantage back to Dooley. Give me 3 receivers that will flat catch the ball if its close to them over 5 that may or may not.
TE- again quality over quantity, Stocker is playing for Tampa Bay Bucs, need I say more.
I would rather have fewer players that are higher quality over bodies any day.
This post was edited by TinyC 19 months ago
There is nothing wrong with change, if it is in the right direction. - Winston Churchill
So you rather have 1 player vs 3-5 players?
You dont know that Neal or Lane or both does not play in the NFL as much or more than Poole in 1-2 years.
Downs is a solid TE and has started for 2 years and Croom could be dominant. Sure Stocker was good but he as all Dooley inherited.
As for GJones.........I have no doubt we have 2-3 guys that are as good as him once they are JRs and SRs and we just dont know how good Bowles and Pig and ? will be once PT is there............just like the jump DRogers and Hunter made in 2011. I get DMoore was really good but he was 1 guy and we have talent coming back.
We got VERY lucky in 2010 not having injuries.....just imagine 1-2 key injuries and that changes everything in how you would view the WRs now vs 2010 and TEs now vs 2010 etc
This post was edited by SamVolsam 19 months ago
To say this is a good jumping off point for discussion isn't really the point imo. It is interesting to compare the program now vs 3 years ago, the author could have done that more fairly.
I am not sure 1 HC in America would take the players coming back for 2010 than those returning for 2013 at more than 1 single position. JMO though.
I agree with you.
Memphischic and samvolsam have pretty much made all of my arguments for me. It's not close at all. The only position that Dooley might have a slight advantage on is at WR/TE and maybe Secondary starters, but mostly just WR/TE. I've always believed that it's possible to make an argument for anything in the world. That article is pushing it.
I'll be surprised if we win more than 8 games each of the next two seasons, but it's simply because of (for next season) a hard schedule and implementing new systems and (in 2014) a lot of young players/first time starters will be relied on. The roster is full and has talent. You can't overlook a good red shirt program and number of upperclassmen in general.
This post was edited by dogassnat 19 months ago
I will easily agree that DMoore, GJones and Stocker were better than what we have returning BUT they were only 3 players with NO one behind them and that there lies the problem as they were gone after that year bc they were SRs.
Now look at our potential still at those positions and the #s we have there and they are not true FR in 2013 and have been in the program for 1-3 years
My only point is that when doing a comparison of what Dooley inherited vs Jones, you have to do so based on the players production prior to the coach taking over.
Using Tauren Poole as an example- he was a 4th string RB when Dooley came on board. Did he turn out to be a very good player in the subsequent 2 years under Dooley and go on to the NFL? Yes. But no one would have known that at the time. So to compare the RB position- you look at the production of Brown/Poole before Dooley and compare that to Neal/Lane/Young/Watson when Jones took over.
Otherwise it's only fair to wait until players Jones inherited have completed their career and then compare the rosters. I think more players on Jones current roster will be playing on Sundays than what was on Dooley's initial roster.
I've decided to stop typing. You've said everything that I've been thinking. So I will just let you do all the responding :)
Though I find the article very flawed- it has generated good discussion. Glad Ghost posted it!
I completely agree about the injuries.
The article is certainly based on one persons opinion and I don't think anyone would argue the fact that Jones is inheriting a better TEAM than what Dooley did.
Dooley did have some quality starters and the talent level dropped significantly when the backups came in, which is a big reason why we could only compete for the first half of a game.
I enjoy playing devil's advocate so thanks for the discussion, that is exactly why I love this site. If I had done that on another site I am pretty sure I would have been called several names and run off the board.
I can't wait until we get to see what Jones 1.0 looks like.
It was a good discussion. I got to get on my
Don't agree with Sam much, but I believe he's right here. Prior to 2010 Poole was stuck behind Hardesty, Brown, and Oku. Both Neal and Lane have more yards and TDs than Poole had at that time. Devrin Young is basically a better version of Oku in terms of productivity and Watson is still an unknown, but showed some ability. Jones inherits the better running back situation by far and he inherits Jay Graham who gives him the opportunity to land Green (just the opportunity is worth something) and coach all of his talent to their full potential. Not even close- Jones. *Footnote: Bryce Brown was gone as much as Hardesty was gone, so suggesting Dooley inherited Bryce distorts the situation Dooley came into.
WR/TE- Moore, Jones, and Stocker were all SRs when Dooley arrived. Jones gets Pig Howard (3 years of eligibility), Bowles (4 years of eligibility) and Croom (3 or 4 years of eligibility) all four star recruits from 2012. Jones also gets Blanc who showed ability and has 3 years of eligibility remaining. Jones also gets Downs who has shown he can run good routes and catch the ball and Meredith who arrived here with potential. Downs has two or three years of eligibility left and Meredith has four years.
These guys aren't just bodies. Jones has some talented, if unproven, options that will be around long enough to give him an opportunity to use them to win games in 2013, 2014, and possibly 2015. .
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