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Just my opinion, but...

  • Fear_Smokey

    If I'm James Franklin right now, I'm starting to get really, really, really nervous. Before The Butcher got here, Franklin was having a field day recruiting against UT because he knew we had a lame-duck coach who didn't care about his players and didn't care about recruiting in-state. Now that Tennessee has a real football coach who is working just as hard as he is, if not harder, Franklin is beginning to find out that his cocky attitude and his "anchor down" pitch has its limits. He's finding out that, no matter how good Vandy becomes or how bad UT is, he still isn't going to beat UT (or anyone in the SEC, for that matter) head to head for anyone. (i.e. - Foreman, Ford, etc) No matter how much he or his players shoot their mouths off and want to think that they are #1 in the state, they cannot escape the fact that Tennessee is Tennessee and Vanderbilt is Vanderbilt, and I think they're realizing that now. I think Franklin just got a nice dose of reality tonight with Ford de-committing, and I'll thoroughly enjoy watching him squirm. I think the strong reaction of the Vandy players may be an indication that they know that their days of out-recruiting UT are done, and they're just butt-hurt about it.

    Just my twocents

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by Fear_Smokey 15 months ago

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    "What did he do? All he did was score!" - John Ward

  • +1 Great post. I can't wait to beat the ish outta vandy next year and put them back in their place where they belong

  • Yea, you see someone's true self when adversity arrives...in this case the team's real maturity.

    Btw, anyone know what Kimbrow tweeted? I'm dying to know!

  • I agree completely. I would also like to go ahead and put the entire SEC on notice, because if this coaching staff works as hard at coaching as they have in recruiting and the team buy's in....ohhhh my!

    I know I am getting ahead of things a bit but the future is looking much brighter than it has in a long time.

    Go Vols!!!!

    Butch Jones is the Bruce Pearl of Football, without the BBQ...biggrin

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    There is nothing wrong with change, if it is in the right direction. - Winston Churchill

  • He won't be at Candy very long.

  • Fear_Smokey

    For real, dude. I mean we may very end up winning a duel with Bama and OSU for Vonn Bell, Clemson and AU for Lawson, and FSU and UGA for Bellamy, just to name a few. For a program that's lost seven games in 4 of its last 5 seasons, that's incredible. It's become abundantly clear to me that Butch is not afraid of anyone...at all. And I absolutely LOVE that. Dooley had his tail between his legs for three years and we all saw where it got us. The Butcher is getting it done, y'all.

    Top 5 class in 2014. You heard it here first.

    Go Vols

    This post was edited by Fear_Smokey 15 months ago

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    "What did he do? All he did was score!" - John Ward

  • James Franklin is smoke and mirrors. His signature win in two years was beating a 6 and 6 Ole Miss team this year. He's not going get it done.

  • Just stopping by to see some of the current Vol talk. Glad to see the Vanderbilt - UT rivalry looking lively! (included much of this post in a different thread, but just cut&pasted it since it seems on target here; too tired to retype)

    Nothing smoke and mirrors about Franklin; about as sincere as it gets. Always surprised to hear when anyone is not a Vanderbilt fan on some level. It's like cheering against a kid with cancer. Vanderbilt winning in the SEC is the "impossible made possible"... the ultimate underdog story.

    Not that I can speak for all Vanderbilt fans (or, of course, the VU players), but I think you'll typically see a pretty consistent response for decommits / flips. It revolves around the attached link. I'm told Coach Franklin gives a copy of this specific study (or similar ones from years past) to recruits. It's probably our number one recruiting tool and the most powerful message you can pass on to a recruit. When a VU commit flips to Stanford, most of us say something along the lines of, "That's understandable. Reasonable decision; good luck to him." When a VU commit flips to Auburn or Ole Miss or other SEC destinations... then we feel like the recruit has been had, fed lines of nonsense and not thinking long term.

    Only a small percentage of SEC commits (regardless of star rating) ever make the NFL. NFL careers average 3.5 yrs. Getting an education and a degree matters. If you're a black male, you're around twice as likely to graduate if you choose Vanderbilt than if you go elsewhere in the SEC. Fans will be fans, but if you're honestly thinking of a talented young black man as a person and not just a recruit... and if they have the ability inside and outside the classroom, you would encourage them to go to Stanford... or Northwestern... or Vanderbilt. Somewhere that makes it twice as likely to end up with a degree.

    I'm not particularly anti-any other programs. However, I am very pro-Vanderbilt (and pro-Stanford, pro-Northwestern, etc.) I'm a UF alum. But Muschamp just had his 15th player arrested (Dunker) in 2 years. This was following the 40 something arrests under Urban. And UF's players don't graduate or receive an education. I can't cheer for them. Just can't.

    My message board 2 cents for conversation for the evening. Best of luck to Rudy Ford wherever he chooses February 6th. Looks like Butch is off to a strong start. He was a solid choice. Not actually ending up with Gruden or Strong (but especially Gruden) was a blessing in disguise for Vol fans. Good to see a healthy state of Tennessee rivalry!

    Go Dores! Anchor Down!

    Unknown Titlke

    https://www.gse.upenn.edu/equity/sites/gse.upenn.edu.equity/files/publications/Harper_Williams_and_Blackman_%282013%29.pdf

    https://www.gse.upenn.edu/equity/sites/gse.upenn.edu.equity/files/publications/Harper_Williams_and_Blackman_%282013%29.pdf
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    "Give him six" "We don't give a damn about the whole state of Alabama" "Grit N Grind"

  • We saw your Vandy sales pitch in the other thread. That was enough. And no, rooting against Vandy is not like rooting against a kid with cancer. Pretty silly analogy.

  • I can't believe you actually made that comparison. Cheering Vandy is just like cheering against Stanford, Notre Dame, or even UMass - schools that try to be elitist and self-righteous while actually behaving just as badly (if not worse) than the schools they publicly insult. BTW, a lot of retired and active Navy personnel are still wondering how Vanderbilt Football can progress when it's anchored down...

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  • vols4life1969

    yeah ide say hes trying to scratch that ball head..in a new way...lol

  • vols4life1969

    put this way ..you know those close games we lost ?this staff 'i can prove 100% ,but i bet we would have won them..and the florida game .i think we would have won it..players gave up on dooley
    you could see it..and ,or dooley just didnt know what to do to stop the snowball effect at the end of 3 quarter...how long has it been we whipped florida for 3 quarters and let them slipp right back into in the 4th....coaches forgot about the 4 quarter,,they adjusted and we didnt..plain and simple
    a quarterback ..that was a wr for god sakes...i have a feeling ..well let me say this we got to go to the house this year and wheres a better place to go in and beat a gator...love the way these coaches just keep going and going and never giving up on a kid..where dooley just didnt have that way with family and kids...go vols

  • I think it is a pretty sick and ridiculous analogy. I acutally committed to VU while in high school, but ended up elsewhere. As impossible as Vandy grads believe it to be, I am doing VERY well with my three lowly degrees from two state schools. This argument that kids cannot get an education unless you play ball at a school as amazing as Vandy is silly, and the idea that they "have been had" demeans the student athlete. For a great majority of student athletes, getting any college education is a blessing. I have a friend with degrees from both VU and Carson Newman, and he preferred C-N. So it is possible to have a better experience than that of Vanderbilt? He must be mistaken...

    But boy do I feel sorry for those kids at Bama this year, they may have won the National Championship, but their degrees will only say Univ. of Alabama. Poor, poor kids.

    That is my 2 cents.

  • I can't stand James Franklin .

  • Not sure what's more hilarious - that you actually think the athletes go through the same academic vigors as regular Vandy students or that you think James Franklin is a great guy that everyone loves like a kid with cancer. Or maybe it's that you actually think Vandy plays winning SEC football these days. Funny stuff.

    This post was edited by VolBaller33 15 months ago

  • Lol....I want to beat them this year and watch James Franklin change his slogan to.....take up your anchors, abandon ship!!!! vols

  • All I can say is......LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!! Since when did this subject become a race issue?????????? Black athlete/White Athlete...it's all the same. VU has had one decent season in how many attempts, and all of the sudden they are a "winning" program with a great "underdog" story? It doesn't matter what conference you play in, what level of recruits you have on roster, or how many "cheesy" slogans a coach(s) can come up with. That doesn't make you a winning program. A winning program has proven themselves to be winners historically, facing the highs and lows that come with what football is, especially in the SEC. It is earned by proving yourself day in and day out. No disrespect meant, but VU has not proven themselves yet, and inmho....VU will have to have 8-9 w seasons for at least 8-10 years consistently, and win conference titles as well as a championship or two to acheive the title of a true winning program. Sure VU has great academics, no question there, but does a degree from VU get you a better job than one from UT, or any other large university? I think the law of averages apply here, and I would say no. MAybe in a specialized area that only a handful of schools such VU have programs for. We are talking Football here, our students/players work as hard as anyother with two goals in mind, a great education from a great institution, and a shot at the NFL. I think history has proven we have turned kids into men, and a very STRONG % of our players have very successful careers in the NFL. Our program has suffered greatly for the past several years, but that will change. Thank you though for having some class and integrity in your post.

    This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by Sogozit 15 months ago

  • Not sure why you have to use that cancer line to make your point.

  • Fear_Smokey

    Labradore, you are honestly the first level-headed, polite Vanderbilt fan I have ever come into contact with. I commend you for your polite response. I do understand your point about academics and a good degree; those are very, very valid points in recruiting. However, recruits on the whole (no matter how disappointing this may be) don't really care much about academics; they want to go to the school that either 1) wins a lot 2) has a huge fanbase and lots of media attention or 3) gives them the best chance of getting to the NFL, in some cases all three. The fact of the matter is, SEC schools like Tennessee and Auburn (despite their struggles the past few years) are on another plane when it comes to fan support, tradition, and being an NFL factory. Tennessee has sent more people to the NFL in its history than any SEC school save Alabama. We also have the second most SEC championships (16) of any school in the conference and the second most all time wins (799 - that's 8th best all time in college football) and national championships (6) in the SEC. When you factor our facilities and our top-notch training staff into consideration with all the previously mentioned factors, Tennessee is just overall a better destination than Vanderbilt is. Auburn is the same way. Now, has Franklin started some VU momentum? Absolutely. I would be remiss to say that he isn't doing an exceptional job there. (he won 9 games at Vanderbilt, that is an incredible accomplishment) However, I think his time of beating the big-time programs for recruits in Tennessee is over. He's been able to do it for the last couple years because Dooley was a lame-duck fool in recruiting. But Butch Jones is simply not going to allow James Franklin to beat him for anyone. (look at Foreman and Ford, even if Ford hasn't committed to UT yet) I think Vanderbilt's run of success is ending, but that's just my opinion. I don't think race applies in this though; I honestly don't.

    This post was edited by Fear_Smokey 15 months ago

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    "What did he do? All he did was score!" - John Ward

  • I agree completely with Fear_Smokey therefore I must apologize if my last post appeared to be a slam at you. It wasn't meant that way. You are in fact the first VU fan I have seen on any board who has been classy and polite when engaging the UT fanbase. Thank you for that. Smokey....+1

  • Interesting study, but fraught with several validity and relevance errors. For instance:

    * Does the low graduation rate at other schools include those athletes that transfer to other programs or leave early to go pro?
    * At what rate does this occur at VU compared to other schools (some, I'm sure)?
    * Is there a selection bias in that schools such as Stanford, Harvard, and Notre Dame are only taking kids that have higher academic potential in the first place? (and hasn't Franklin "changed this culture"?)
    * And don't schools such as this often rampant with grade inflation (Vandy included, although not to the degree as Harvard and other more academically privileged schools)?
    * And since the study was from 2007-2010, what does this have to do with Franklin, who arrived in 2011?

    Just off the top of my head. If we think more, I'm sure we can beat this little article up a little bit more. All Franklin has done is get a few more athletes into the program, proving that you can win more games with talent and motivation rather than less talent and mediocre motivational skills. I'm not sure what others see as to his ability to coach Xs and Os, but I've not been very impressed with his on-field ability. He has TAMU and Ole Miss from the SECW this year, so we'll see. I'll go on record and say he will not win 7 games and the thorns will again be visible on the Franklin rose.

  • For what it's worth, I never saw one instance of grade inflation at Vanderbilt. Not saying it doesn't happen, but it never happened to me, and it never happened for the football players I tutored there.

    I think the selection bias is what largely explains that study, which explains why all of the schools with high graduation rates are premier academic institutions. The study says they generally accept better students (shocking, I know), not that they have some ability to make the average to bad student suddenly become intelligent and motivated. A lot of the guys we've seen get kicked out of school weren't going to make it wherever they went.

    "When we step on that football field, everyone flips a switch. And it's on..." - Butch Jones

  • I agree that the grade inflation is likely a minor issue at VU compared to the early departures/transfers (both of which still count against you for NCAA purposes) and as you suggest, the selection bias. Sadly, some schools and parents just don't hold HS athletes as responsible for their grades when they start excelling on the field/court/pitch/etc. But we'll see how it goes in the next few years.