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I was there in 77 as well when Johnny Came Marching Home as well. BIG DIFFERENCE is that Majors had just rebuilt Pitt and won a National Championship at Pitt. He was a bally-hoed UT player and proven coach. Dooley, he came from La Tech and a losing record with no proven track record.
I really wanted CDD to succeed and I'll root as fervently as possible for the Vols Saturday and every Saturday thereafter. However, I do not think he is guy to finish the turn-around. Nothing in his past is indicative that he will be successful in this endeavor. Just hope. I am done "hoping". I want a proven coach like Majors was to lead the Vols!!!!!
One thing you forgot to mention is Majors being able to have 120+ players at Pitt. When he was forced to have only 85 it took him 7 years to be truly successful. You said he was a successful coach and that only proves the point. A successful coach took 7 years to complete the rebuild.
"Count it down with me. Five, four, three, two, one.
The national champion is clad in Big Orange!"
tnbear, in all seriousness if Dooley loses Saturday, what have you seen from him as a coach that would lead you to believe that he can beat Oregon, Bama, FL, GA, or USCe next year or the 5 or 6 top 20 teams on the schedule in 2014? UT's recruiting has dipped a little every year he's been here, yet our comp keeps raising their level of recruiting, including teams like MS State and Vandy. Teams that we used to use to get experience for our third string. If Dooley loses Saturday, you are relying upon a coach who has yet to show he can outcoach the big boys with less talent or even equal or better talent in some cases (see KY and MS State), to get a breakthrough victory against one of the big boys in the next two years, considering that the longer he fails to beat them, the wider the talent gap becomes, the less talent he will have to work with to pull an upset.
+1. That will be my position on Dooley, if UT loses Saturday.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by DCVolunteer 18 months ago
He actually signed more than 100 guys one year, the class that became seniors in the Pitt NC year of '77. That also bolsters my original point about the importance of a strong senior class.
Agree tnbear66. Majors had the unlimited signing class as a huge advantage!
DC, I feel your passion and I have my moments when I may feel some of the same things you do. However, I had one source at UT who had been there for many years and the things that were wrong with that program were monumental and ran deeper than anyone could imagine. To say the culture was dysfunctional is an understatement and if you don't think things like that affect coaches and players alike then I have no explanation that will help you. I loved Phil and have and still do have a great deal of respect for him in many ways but his complacency ran deeper than anyone could imagine. Then you throw Kiffin in the mix and we were not much better than a start up program with a losing attitude when Dooley got here. I don't know if Dooley will ultimately take us where we want to go but I know this was and will remain a 5 year minimum rebuild. The bottom line is there was no real heart left in this program and that's why we don't finish games like we used to and what you see the coaches trying to change. Wes's Palermo interview has a very telling story about when he was at Wisconsin and I think it really relates to where we are now.
Speaking of Auburn, they're 1-6 and on their way to 3-9. AU has had better recruiting classes than UT the last few years so there's your answer to your riddle. Chizick (sp?) has won an SEC championship, a National Championship but who on this board would rather have him than Dooley? Not me, not by a long shot.
Well played sir...well played. +1
1 Corinthians 16:13 Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
There's that nasty logic monster again...oh well +1.
I think you and I may agree on the situation he walked into. I will also agree he's done alot to fix the problems, but moving forward the question really relates to whether there is a belief that Dooley can finish the job given two more years when he hasn't been able to get a breakthrough victory and each year moving forward the talent gap grows leaving him less talent to get that breakthrough victory.
This post was edited by RockytopATL 18 months ago
Dooley is a hardworking coach doing his best to revive a program that was on life support when he arrived. Once you see that, you will begin to understand the evolution of a college program.
You are correct that he needs a signature victory. That's why I made reference to the Palermo interview about his time at Wisconsin and how it seemed to come when no one expected it. I will say this, should he lose to USCe and one of the November games I will be more inclined to listen to him being replaced but until then I will continue to say he needs more time. I appreciate the civil debate we are having.
People are mistaking progress, in the least tangible sense of the word, with any real inclination toward contention. Did this team player moderately well in spurts? I guess. Did we really put the fear of God in anyone? No. Have we beat anyone with a pulse in three years? No. There is simply no evidence that Derek Dooley is capable of doing this job. Sure he could hang around for eight years, recruit moderately well, maybe have a couple of eight or nine win seasons to go along with his multitude of 7-5 and 6-6 ones, but so could any remotely competent coach at Tennessee. What he can't do is inspire men, instill discipline and toughness, or recruit at a high enough level to really accomplish anything.
So go on and tell yourself he needs more time, but you're just trying to make yourself feel better. The guy is not a good football coach. He just isn't. And I say that knowing full well that the last thing we need right now is another coaching change. Sometimes you have to pick the lesser of two evils, and in this case that means moving in another direction.
People can point toward the negative situation he walked into, his bad luck, blah blah blah but the simple fact is if you watch his football team you see a team that doesn't look like a coherent unit. Even bad programs will win a game or two they aren't supposed to win simply because the players play over their heads because they are inspired, or embarrassed, or whatever. Dooley's teams are incapable of doing that, and he's clearly not getting through to them like Fulmer or any other good coach would.
TL;DR - It's over, and it should be. Even if he wins this weekend how can you trust this team to go 4-0 in November? I know I don't.
You're not the last. I'm right there with you. We wont know anything about Dooley, or Sal until next season is over. That being said, the only way I would consider letting Dooley go, is if we get Gruden. He's the only one out there I'd want. But I do think Dooley needs to graduate a class. +1!
Ron Zook recruited some great players at Fla. and look what happened there. I still support Dooley and have taken up for him the last 3yr but he's got to give us something to look forward to. I'm not saying we should fire him but he needs to give is something. He thought we should have won the Fla. game then the Georgia game then the Miss St. game but we haven't. We got beat by Kentucky last year which doesn't sound that bad until you say they did it with their WR playing QB. I will stand by our Vols but give us something to be proud of.
Now, friend, I can pretty much guarantee this won't affect how we feel about life- one way or another. 45 years of watching the vols have given me a little perspective and no matter who is coaching us, it won't change the name at the top of my degree!
It was because Paul said we were delusional, wasn't it! Touché! Rocky, you'll never bring me around on Paul. I met Jerry Springer when I was 12 and knew Paul in college. Absent the follicle difference on their respective craniums, they are the same person!
Yes love your quote. I was here in 77 also long before an I think dooley is doing great job. He need more time , these young bucks wantd there cake and eat it to at same time
You're not alone. I was seven years old in 77, but already old enough to love the Vols. The coaching world has changed since then, I know. Now, its large money and high expectations. Ultimately, Dave Hart's philosophy will soon reveal itself and we will learn which side of this argument he is on. Until then, I can't agree more with tnbear that this thread has been extremely civil with great arguments from most everyone. I hope CDD is given the opportunity to finish the season and is judged on his last 4 games rather than the fours losses and SCar game. If we can win November and win in a bowl game, it would greatly improve the confidence of this team, give us more practice and exposure, and improve the recruiting class. That's re-building the program one brick at a time, and continuing to improve on a steady foundation.
How can anyone look at the debacle on the field and think that Dooley will get it done? I was watching the bama game with my 7 year old son and he even noticed how poorly coached this team is. The only units on the team who have improved are the running backs and the o-line, that is a fact. It's embarrassing! What our program has become.
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