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Why would Derrick Green think less of UT or more of UM if Notre Dame defeats Alabama?
I don't see the connection.
This post was edited by Denver Vol 16 months ago
"When we step on that football field, everyone flips a switch. And it's on..." - Butch Jones
Well as long as Nick Saban is at Bama they will have top 5 classes. Nothing we can do about it. They will always be good...
The key IMO is to move our focus to the Carolinas, and the DC/Virginia area. Build relationships there where there aren't dominant teams.
The SEC pitch won't be as strong.
I don't think that hurts us as much as Bama getting whoever they want, if our goal is to ultimately sit atop the SEC.
I think that's just Nick Saban. As long as he's there they will be good. He's a once in a generation type coach. Best college football coach since I've been alive.
Correct. Maybe that aspect of Green's recruitment is slightly diminished, but it would still be sold as the best conference. Bama losing to a team without a conference doesn't really change that overall perception. Bama losing to Notre Dame isn't going to make Green think the Big-10 is suddenly a better conference, if he's logical at all.
Moreover, like you said, we go head to head with Bama and other SEC teams WAY more often than we do with Michigan. If Bama losing lost Green but opened the door with a number of other recruits, that's a good trade-off for UT.
That said, I don't think Bama losing would make Green swing to Michigan. There are likely a lot of other, more substantial factors that go into his decision than conference strength.
They'll always be good, yes, but why would we cheer for them to win championships.
On top of the fact that it probably doesn't help us, they're the enemy!
The only reason I root for other SEC teams is because those are the teams with which I am most familiar and fond. So long as they aren't playing UT, I will generally root for them, but not because of the conference affiliation itself. Alabama and Florida, however, can go screw themselves. Unfortunately, I hate Notre Dame like Rucker hates the Cardinals. I'm going to be bummed no matter who wins the NC game.
Regarding the argument that we shouldn't root for an SEC team because they are recruiting rivals, that logic only takes you so far. Without dominance and solid recruiting by a majority of the league, the quality of the league as a whole goes down.
I would say if Bama loses, there is a better chance of Bell thinking less of Bama and picking UT than there is of Green thinking less of the SEC and picking Michigan.
This is why I wanted Georgia to beat Alabama, so we could add to the growing number of SEC who have won the BCS.
The SEC is truly a great conference and it will demonstrate it again in the bowl season, probably by winning most of its games in the 4th quarter.
Just thought of another question which relates very closely to this discussion topic:
Would you rather UT be 10-2 in the 2nd or 3rd best conference or 5-7 in the best conference? If the top teams in the league take a hit and the conference quality overall suffers, UT has a better chance to compete with those top teams, but it doesn't come with the same prestige that it used to. What would you rather have?
Exactly, because we go head to head with them, so we should hope they lose.
And that's okay with you, while UT sits at home for the second season in a row?
Why does that make you feel better about our situation? I would prefer they all get beaten to death, which maybe makes them lose some recruits and opens the door for us to beat them in the next couple of years.
How about that? I want to beat our competitors, not watch them win championships while our season is over and we got embarrassed yet again.
I want to whip them, and no one has yet made a cogent argument as to how them winning helps us beat them. The only end that I care about is UT wins.
The SEC winning makes it more attractive for prospects not in the south to play in the south. We may not be able to steal 4 and 5 star kids from the states of Georgia and ALabama, but we may be able to in Virginia, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Maryland where Georgia and Alabama may not want to recruit as much...
Does Bama winning it all help us w/ recruits in Alabama and Georgia? Not really, but Tennessee every year spends the most $ on recruiting. If we recruit talent outside of the SEC, the SEC winning 7 championships in a row is good bragging rights when we step into a propsects house in states not in the south.
I think you will notice that I got a strong post going last night on this subject.
However, I would like to respond directly to your postings on this subject. There are only two ways that your argument makes sense:
1. Because Bama wins they get to sign as many players as they want.
2. Because Bama wins there are only 25 good prospects available and the rest aren't worth having.
There are 4 or 5 teams in this conference that have great recruiting pull because of a history of winning and geographical advantage. The SEC is a powerful pull for the rest of the programs to attract attention from national recruits. I would then argue that our heritage and the quality of our campus and infrastructure gives us a tremendous advantage over the remainder of the teams in the SEC. So yes, I do believe that there is value in other SEC teams in general and Bama specifically doing well against non-conference competition.
But where are those players? We aren't exactly stacking up on 4* and 5* players, unless they've been passed over by other SEC teams, and you can probably only name a handful of those. Wouldn't it be better to be able to go head-to-head with recruits the other SEC teams want and win?
I've tried to logically spell out why SEC dominance doesn't help us, and you guys just keep asserting is does without adding any more color to your opinion.
You can't just keep insisting that it helps us with no evidence or logic and expect me to eventually believe you.
The SEC is the king and definitely helps all the teams in the league. Where do you find one loss SEC teams in the rankings? Ahead of all other one loss teams. Tennesee needs to win football games in order for the strength of schedule to help us. The lack of strength in the SEC may be revealed in the NCAA basketball field this year. It is best for all the teams in the conference to be in the strongest conference. We have not been able to enjoy these benefite because we have under achieved in our conference. Gooooo Bama.
That's Dooley's fault. We now have a Head coach with a pulse.
This post was edited by hdrizzle21 16 months ago
Thanks for laying out a logical rationale and not just insisting again on the opinion.
I think it may raise the profile of the conference, but my point is that we're in an era of ultra-performance from an unprecedented number of teams in this conference. Never before has Florida, Georgia, Alabama, South Carolina, Miss. St., Texas A&M, etc. all been so good at once.
Again, I don't want the league to go to crap, but as long as all of those teams continue pulverizing everyone, we get penalized and not helped for it.
To prove your point, I need someone to show me very good to elite recruits that signed with Tennessee because other teams in the SEC have been very successful. It's the only way to prove the point, because I can sit here all day and show you example of recruits we have lost to other SEC teams because they have been very successful, therefore proving my point.
So, logically, regardless of who is the coach, we would have done worse in recruiting if Bama and Florida and Auburn hadn't been winning all of these championships? You don't think that maybe if they had lost a little bit more it would have opened the door for us to land some more recruits?
The biggest things that have hurt TN were a bad hire with Kiffin in retrospect because of the one and done and the hiring of Coach Dooley. The program has also not had a lot of luck with injuries over the past few years as well. In the past TN has been pretty damn good while Florida and or Bama have been successful. Back then it was going back and forth on who was better between us and them. And we were included in that. Other SEC teams don't have to fall for us to be successful. A well coached and recruited program in conjunction with our heritage and infrastructure should bring us back to the top!
Also, thanks to everyone for having a good debate here. I like that we can all disagree without being jerks...it's the best thing about this site.
These kinds of discussion are very fun for me, so thanks again.
Wanting the SEC to beat non- SEC teams does not mean I'm content with Tennessee staying at home with a 5-7 record. Alabama is not going to be any less competitive next year if they lose to Notre Dame. If anything, it gives the best coach in college football more motivation the following year and a recruiting pitch to uber prospects that they are the missing link to winning the next championship.
Rather, the dominance of the SEC forces the hands of all those associated with the program; AD, Chancellor, BoT, boosters, etc to committ to getting UT back on top. one example - We don't pull out all the stops in the new state- of- the- art training facility if we didn't feel the pressure to stay competitive. That facility is touted as being one of best in the nation - both college and the NFL- and definitely going to be a factor in recruiting.
What you don't understand is ELITE RECRUITS DONT SIGN WITH CRAPPY TEAMS! We have been horrible for 3 years. Who wants to play here? Who wanted to play for Dooley? Nobody. 4 and 5 stars didn't want to play for Doolander he was inept...
And somebody else made the great point that Even if a team loses once in the SEC that means nothing. You can't say that about other conferences. Look at Oregon and KSU. Both lost once and then look at Bama. They made it over the other 2 because we play in the SEC.
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