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Agree 100%. We are a victim of a lot of other circumstances. I'm just saying, those being what they are, wouldn't we be better off if the rest of the league weren't so darn fierce right now.
I also agree that regardless of what the rest of the league does, we will get better over the next three or four years. We are starting to clean up a lot of the mess that has help us back for a while, and things should improve.
"When we step on that football field, everyone flips a switch. And it's on..." - Butch Jones
I disagree. Conference dominance does not help ALL teams in the league. It helps the BEST teams in the leagues. The one-loss SEC football teams will be ranked ahead of other one-loss teams, but UT will still be sitting at home during bowl season. A strong conference RPI helps those that have good enough records already, but the bottom half of the good leagues will be out of the tournament just like the average teams from average conferences.
As Denver Vol has said, I care about TENNESSEE winning. I don't give two sh-ts about Bama and I want to see them lose. I want to BEAT Alabama. I want to BEAT Florida. I don't want to have to fall back on their success to sustain my pride. I like it when the SEC is dominant, but I like it a heck of a lot more when UT is winning games and our rivals are not.
I agree. And you're making my point in the first paragraph. Players don't sign with crappy teams, and perhaps we wouldn't be perceived as such a crappy team if we didn't have to play the world's worst death-gauntlet in the history of football, and then recruit against those teams.
The second paragraph isn't really on topic. Bama does get some benefit in rankings because of their schedule, but again, how does that help us? It helps Bama, but it doesn't help us at all. I'm not happy for them because they get to play for another title.
That's the best argument I've heard for your point of view yet. Interesting take.
Any recruit that picks us over an ACC team (UNC, Clemson, VA, etc...) is an example of us benefiting from SEC dominance. In terms of current recruits, think about Marquez North (sp?). Also, wasn't Hunter picking between us and UVA?
Also, has any other team put up Top 25 recruiting numbers with our record over the last 3 years? History and facilities help, but SEC dominance is the biggest boost IMO.
Also, Bama losing will not make any recruit think less of them at all.
Good topic and discussion - glad you brought it up. And really glad it's remained this civil :)
The sloppy seconds theory of recruiting. No self respect.
Not unless the reason they pick us is because the SEC is a hyper-competitive league. Is that why Marquez North is choosing us? If so, wouldn't he have kept calling us his leader when the coaching staff got fired? Doesn't that indicate that the coaches had more to do with his interest than purely being in the SEC? As soon as they got fired he moved us down his list.
I would cede your point if we'd had an above average to average on the field and recruiting coach lately. But as you well know we haven't. We've also had really bad luck with key injuries and players who've had to be kicked off the team.
I believe we now have a coach who has succeeded at every level he's coached. With this staff and our history and facilities we should begin to close that gap. I will grant you that it will be tougher with the success of the conference lately. However, I believe it will happen.
This post was edited by SWVolfan 16 months ago
So what you're saying is that we've been helped in recruiting by SEC dominance, only it hasn't produced tangible recruiting results because our coach was bad a recruiting?
My issue with that is this: our coach being who he was, wouldn't he have been able to win more recruiting battles if our competitors had not been so successful over the last 6 years?
If it were Georgia and not Alabama in the National Championship game I'd pull for the SEC.
I think the strength of the SEC helps us in recruiting however I think it helps the top teams more. Which are the teams we have to actually play year end and year out. I mean, UT has to compete with Bama, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina every year! All with better home state recruiting. Not to mention LSU, Arkansas, Auburn, Texas A&M being on the rotation schedule.
Texas A&M might be the next great team in the SEC. I think the 'SEC' affiliation along with fertile Texas recruiting grounds will help them probably the most of any team in the SEC.
Having said all of that.....
You are placing way to much importance on the effect that Bama losing the bowl game will have on our recruiting. That may or may not have an impact on Von Bell.
Many of Fulmer recruits over his past few years were busts. The class that Kiffin recruited looked good on paper but the results were that it was one of the worst classes in the nation in the long run. On the surface Dooley did a decent job with recruiting at best. However, we lost so many key players due to injuries and off the field issues that it became absurd. On top of that I believe Dooley was probably the worst on the field coach we've had in 40-45 years. This lead to the bad win loss records of the past years more than the quality of the rest of the conference. We weren't bad because the rest of the conference was good. We were bad because the A/D and coaches didn't manage the program to the high level that we had become accustomed to.
I think having Von Bell on campus for the last visit of the year with the new staff will be much more important to our efforts than Bama winning or losing.
Bingo, Saban in college football is like Calipari at Kentucky as long as they are there they will come simple logic
I'm not saying that Bama losing this one game will be the difference in us getting any particular recruit.
I'm saying that, for the reasons I've enumerated, it seems logical that less success from Bama, Georgia, et. al. would generally bode well for our recruiting.
I would agree with that perhaps on a regional level. I'm just afraid that an overall weakening of the SEC brand would hurt us on a national level. To me because of our demographic issues it is more important to us to be able to recruit nationally than it is for the GA, FL, LA and AL teams. That's why we seem to spend more on recruiting than other SEC teams do.
That's about as simple as I can state it. I will leave it there. Thanks for the excellent debate.
I want the SEC to win the national championship every year so I am not looking at it as Notre Dame vs Alabama. Does it help Tennessee this year with recruiting if Alabama wins? Not directly. But beating the defending champions the following year can do wonders for your program. Johnny Manziel catapulted into Heisman front runner after beating Alabama.
Also, in 2013 at least 1/2 of the top ten recruiting classes will be from the SEC. Alabama, LSU, Georgia, Florida, etc will be just as competitive no matter the outcome in the national title game and maybe even more so given the increasing trend of signing early enrollees. Tennessee has to take care of Tennessee to get on a level playing field.
So why pull for the SEC when the words "Roll Tide" make me choke? Because I'm assuming TN is on the verge of being back and will soon benefit in a more direct fashion of the strong brand that is the SEC. A brand whose foundation is winning. A nationally perceived SEC dominance benefits SEC teams in so many ways. If there was more parity amongst the conferences then 1/2 of ESPN Gamedays this year would not have been at SEC venues, a one loss SEC team would be on the same footing as a one loss team from any other conference, etc. It's up to Tennessee to become relevant enough to will reap more benefits of the SEC brand
The SEC isn't getting weak anytime soon. The SEC is where coaches get paid more. The SEC will continue to dominate as long as that holds true. Tennessee hasn't been landing the talent because they got cheap with the last coaching hire.... They paid a little more this time.... You will see some better results in the not so long future, but it will be because CBJ is bringing the talent in... Not because the SEC as a whole is a powerhouse....
That would take awhile cause we have what 85 scholarship players and frankly I don't know them all but seriously your asking what? Name players that chose us over Bama? Off the top my head CP Darrick Hunter Richardson M. Jackson Stone Maggit AJ Johnson McNeal basically I'd guess almost all our big time recruits had offers or were looked at by Saban. I'm not sure really what your getting at. I'll ask this are you trying to say we don't have a player on our team that Bama wanted? If so I think you are selling our kids short.
I don't think that was really his point. I think what he is saying is that a lot of people are arguing that they are rooting for Bama in the title game because that will help UT in recruiting. He is saying that the players we have on our roster didn't pick UT because of our association with Bama and how good they are.
Yes, a strong SEC will make some athletes attracted to UT, but does Bama need to beat Notre Dame for the SEC to be strong? Not at all. The SEC is a lot more than Bama. If Bama wasn't in the title game, it would be Florida, and if not them it would be Georgia, and if not them it would be LSU, etc. etc. Players aren't going to choose UT because Bama won the championship and since we are in the same conference as Bama they want to come play at UT.
For me, I want the SEC to be strong. But I hate Bama. And UT's future success doesn't depend on Bama's current success. It depends on what Butch Jones, Dave Hart, and those players do to make it successful. Therefore, I want Bama to get absolutely embarrassed on January 7. And then I want Butch to go pitch TENNESSEE to recruits, not the SEC.
Puddin, this is what I meant. He said it better than I did.
memphischic is bringing the heat tonight! Great points on both posts and +1 for each. For the record, I'm not pulling for the tide or the gators. BUT, if every SEC team in a bowl game this year loses, does that hurt recruiting for the conference. How about if every team wins? Does that help recruiting for the conference? Bottom line, SEC IS the best football conference in the Nation. How they fare against other conferences does affect recruiting for every team in the conference.
BUTCH IS NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART. GO VOLS!
Got ya and agree totally with that.
plus 1+ volfan28 spoton...in noway would i pull for bama to beat the irsh
Ever since I was a little kid watching UT football for the first time I learned time and time again you don't cheer for your rivals. The only time my dad and us didnt cheer that way was when Florida played Ohio State in the national title in 2006 and we were happy to see Florida take them out to the woodshed. Ohio State thought they were high and mighty and unbeatable and Florida smacked them around. However under any other circumstances I won't cheer for the conference. Tennessee gets no benefit from Alabama putting another banner up. I don't understand "conference pride". I like knowing Tennessee plays in the best conference in the nation but I would never cheer for any of the rivals I hate.
This post was edited by MiddleTNVol 16 months ago
"Give him six" "We don't give a damn about the whole state of Alabama" "Grit N Grind"
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