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And his coach wants only assistants with hot wives....again, coaches' attitudes filter down.
"When we step on that football field, everyone flips a switch. And it's on..." - Butch Jones
Agreed. Kiffin 2.0.
Last year I remember Franklin being very public about recruits who decommitted were not "men of honor" and lacked integrity. His current players are doing everything they can to personify Franklin's words and don't realize they are making Vandy look very bad while doing so.
I think Franklin is a sexist, misogynistic pig. And it looks like his players take after him.
This is horrible and looks so bad on Candy and their POS coach. I love it. Anchors up this ship has sailed.
Would love to see you stand in front of Robertson and spout off instead of hiding safely behind this board. He's a good student at a good school, a wrestling champion, a super football player, and many more things, sadly, that you and your board mates will never be. I used to root for the Vols and enjoy their Pride of the Southland Band. Band is still good, UThugs not so much.
Really? All UT fans are thugs?
Just stopping by to see some of the Vol take on Rudy Ford. Glad to see the Vanderbilt - UT rivalry looking lively!
Not that I can speak for all Vanderbilt fans (or, of course, the VU players), but I think you'll typically see a pretty consistent response for decommits / flips. It revolves around the attached link. I'm told Coach Franklin gives a copy of this specific study (or similar ones from years past) to recruits. It's probably our number one recruiting tool and the most powerful message you can pass on to a recruit. When a VU commit flips to Stanford, most of us say something along the lines of, "That's understandable. Reasonable decision; good luck to him." When a VU commit flips to Auburn or Ole Miss or other SEC destinations... then we feel like the recruit has been had, fed lines of nonsense and not thinking long term.
Only a small percentage of SEC commits (regardless of star rating) ever make the NFL. NFL careers average 3.5 yrs. Getting an education and a degree matters. If you're a black male, you're around twice as likely to graduate if you choose Vanderbilt than if you go elsewhere in the SEC. Fans will be fans, but if you're honestly thinking of a talented young black man as a person and not just a recruit... and if they have the ability inside and outside the classroom, you would encourage them to go to Stanford... or Northwestern... or Vanderbilt. Somewhere that makes it twice as likely to end up with a degree.
I'm not particularly anti-any other programs. However, I am very pro-Vanderbilt (and pro-Stanford, pro-Northwestern, etc.) I'm a UF alum. But Muschamp just had his 15th player arrested (Dunker) in 2 years. This was following the 40 something arrests under Urban. And UF's players don't graduate or receive an education. I can't cheer for them. Just can't.
My message board 2 cents for conversation for the evening. Best of luck to Rudy Ford wherever he chooses February 6th. Looks like Butch is off to a strong start. He was a solid choice. Not actually ending up with Gruden or Strong (but especially Gruden) was a blessing in disguise for Vol fans. Good to see a good state of Tennessee rivalry!
Go Dores! Anchor Down!
Thank you for a measured, well-produced response.
It's a good thing to graduate more young men, but I just question the relevance when so much has changed in the type of athlete that Vanderbilt is now pursuing. Also, there is a serious selection bias in play here. Vanderbilt generally takes high quality students that are also athletes, so it's likely more a reflection of who they admit than what occurs at the school. If Rudy Ford could get in and do well there, he'll likely do the same elsewhere.
Regardless, I also think it's short-sighted to presume a person necessarily gets a better education at Vanderbilt versus, say, Auburn (where Ford has always wanted to play as a kid). While I think it's likely that that is the case (I'm a Vandy alum and think I received a great education there), a lot of other factors come into play. The size of the school, the size of the town, the people you want to be around, the style of football you want to play, the major you want to pursue, etc. all go into the decision of where to go to college. It's about more than just the average SAT score of the student body, and it's about more than what US News & World Report ranks you. I, for example, passed up some better academic schools to go to Vandy because I was a musician and that was the right fit for me. Wouldn't change it for the world, even though I could have earned a more prestigious degree elsewhere.
The bottom line is Vandy fans have immediately concluded he's making a mistake by choosing to hide behind the strength of the average student's degree at the school, and that, in my opinion, is just a myopic, judgmental way to view the situation.
This post was edited by Denver Vol 18 months ago
I love James franklins go hard for "six seconds" motto I guess with his battle with ED he lasted that long with his wife one night and she said he did a good job haha so he brought that mentality to the football field
There all just so full of themselves it's funny cant wait till they come to knoxville this year and we put them back in their rightful place anchored down to the bottom of the SEC east
The other thing, Labradore, is that when you think of schools in two buckets, good (VU, Stanford, etc.) and bad (UT, Auburn, etc.), you assume all athletes are capable enough academically to fit there. Not everyone belongs at places like that. Plenty of kids thrive at plenty of other places to just say that those other educations aren't valuable. It's also pretty offensive to people who have come out of those places and done really well for themselves in things other than football.
It may not be evident to those of the prevailing Vanderbilt mindset, but most people don't go to schools like that. Most people go to state institutions, and a whole heck of a lot of them do very very well, so to suggest that going to Auburn is equivalent to getting snowed and tricked into a horrible decision is ludicrous, narrow-minded, and pretty darn offensive.
And I'm glad I left Vanderbilt without ever becoming that elitist.
Denver Vol just said a lot that I was going to say.
I took a look at the report. It was based between the years 2006-2010. Like Demver Vol said those numbers can start becoming skewed once you factor in the type of recruiting Franklin is now conducting. But let's say its not skewed that much because its looking at all athletes not just football players. Then that's great that Banderbilt is giving that type of education.
But at the same time, we had a recruit come in over the weekend who is interested in aeronautical engineering. Would he be able to delve into that major at Vandy? No. I went to UT because I preferred its Journalism School compared to any other school in the state.
Okay let's look at the person and not the recruit. It's troubling to me that the graduation rates for these men are low. The fact is, you should be asking yourself more how can we fix this and spend less time on your high horse saying go to Vanderbilt where we'll guarantee three out if four will graduate.
This post was edited by Rocklion2000 18 months ago
I included a link for the pdf of the study that includes the stats regarding graduation rates (may not be showing up for you Denver if you're on a mobile device). The cliffs notes version would be (and this is obviously overly simplified): a black male would have to be border line crazy to go to any SEC school other than Vanderbilt. Harsh statement, but there's no sugar coating that the other SEC programs' graduation rates for black men should be a source of great embarrassment.
Denver, I've read many of your posts over time and I have to ask... objectively, you really aren't impressed with what Franklin has done? It's easy for me to say that Freeze is doing a great job at Ole Miss. Butch is off to a nice start in Knoxville. Just surprised anyone wouldn't be impressed (amazed?) at Franklin "making the impossible possible."
Just out of curiosity, it doesn't sound like your time at VU made you a Vanderbilt fan. Why? I've always found them to be the ultimate underdog story. Cheering against them is like cheering against a kid with cancer. Or hating a real life Rudy Ruettiger. Even if you're a Vol fan, as a Vanderbilt alum, no room for VU as your second favorite team?
Either way, I enjoy the good conversation.
(sorry Denver, I'm typing too much to catch your follow up posts)
Who said anything about the educations at other SEC schools not being valuable? But I think all would agree that not getting your degree is a problem. And there's only one SEC school where black males get their degree with a respectable frequency (and that has been true for decades, described in multiple studies; the linked is just the most recent).
What's elitist about thinking a young man should get a degree?
"Give him six" "We don't give a damn about the whole state of Alabama" "Grit N Grind"
No time spent on a "high horse" Rocklion. Just respect where Vanderbilt places its priorities. I spend plenty of time as a taxpayer and as a state school alum criticizing pouring money into athletics and shorting academics... our universities are not fronts for athletic departments. Fans seem to forget that far too often.
No desire to win any debates... just would like to see people cheer for schools that have their priorities straight (and demand those priorities from their legislators and university administrators wherever they live). I honestly think these are important conversations to have. I don't think most fans realize how abysmal the graduation numbers are (especially for black males). How can anyone be OK with that?
Oh this is an interesting tidbit from the study. Ninety percent of the student population graduates from Vanderbilt yet black males are at 74 percent. With such a huge graduation rate why is there that big of a gap?
Looking at UT, our graduation rate is 60 percent with 48 percent black males graduating.
Attrition is to be expected at a state school - it's an experience where young people come to find whether its right for them or not. I'd like to know how's my student athletes UT and these other SEC schools have compared to Vanderbilt. It speaks in percentages but that can mean anything.
I just did some quick research and this is what I found. Vanderbilt has 12,000 students. The study states 3.2 percent of the student body is black males. UT has 30,000 students. Out of that, 3.4 percent are black males.
Simple math will tell you that UT has more than twice as many black male students than Vamdy. More people? More likely you're going to see attrition.
I'd love to see this kid stand in front of Butch Jones and say to his face that he wasted his gas and so on, instead of hiding behind his twitter account. He might be a good kid and all that but doesn't make it ok for him to be disrespectful and say something like that towards Coach Jones where everyone can see it. I also think its laughable that you think we're all "UThugs".
This post was edited by MiddleTNVol 18 months ago
What's elitist about telling a young man where he can get a degree? Perhaps I should talk to my black male and female friends and ask them why they went to UT or UTC since apparently the only school they can graduate from in the south is Vanderbilt.
Yes that is completely disrespectful. And I'm not even talking about sports now. I'd like to see research on black women. I'd like to see research on black students as a whole. That is a primary example of eggheaded academia at its finest. You find a little segment to do your research paper on to get your PhD and then someone picks it up and runs with it without looking at realistic scenarios.
You are devaluing a person's degree at other institutions by saying, "come here, you can get your degree." And when your looking at a student population half the size of another then your also giving an impression of false hope because not everyone can get into that university. And it's better to give a kid a chance then none at all.
Oh and congratulations. First time in my life I've seen an eggheaded troll on a message board.
I can definitely see and respect that perspective. Objectively, if I were a parent and my son had to choose between a school like Stanford, Vandy, and NW or a school like UT, Auburn, and Kentucky, at first I'd be crazy not to say the academically superior school. However, maybe he isn't geared to that kind of environment, or another school has a better business program or basket weaving program, or whatever. That doesn't make it a wrong or bad choice. If anyone could graduate from Harvard, it wouldn't be Harvard... Likewise with Vandy.
I appreciate the civil debate, Labradore.
Without getting in to which schools "have their priorities straight" and which don't,
for me, the bottom line is that graduation rates and academic prestige are good things, and Vandy should be proud of those accomplishments. However, those things (1) don't make Vandy a better place for all black males to succeed than other SEC schools and (2) don't excuse the hatred, spite, elitism, and disrespect that is coming from the players to Ford and from a growing portion of the fan base towards other fans. That is inexcusable, and if James Franklin were my coach, I'd want him to do something about it. Problem is, it started when he got there.
Appreciate your willingness to venture into "enemy territory" with objective insight. +1
When it comes to academics, no one in the SEC can argue their program is better than Vanderbilt's (FYI -half of my family went to Vandy and I have a great affinity for them). But on the flip side, a great education can be had at any of the state institutions. Most importantly is a huge nationwide networking allegiance that pays tremendous dividends in making connections for finding jobs after college. Vandy's smaller population doesn't provide the same network as some of the other SEC schools.
I don't like the dismal graduation rate but the SEC puts the most players in the NFL. If a person can earn 6 figures without a degree, who am I to judge? The better question is who has been successful after leaving their alma mater from either an academic or athletic point of view? Many players come back to earn their degrees following their stint in the pros.
Lastly, you've brought up very sound points but curious of your reaction to Vandy players being so vocal about a player decommitting. I've never seen this type of vitriol shown towards a recruit. Would like to hear your thoughts!
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