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I know we have a few butch jones threads going. But I'm more curious for those of you who are bashing him why he shouldn't be our coach. What makes charlie strong a better candidate than Butch Jones? He's been a HC longer, had more success at a similar type of school, and wants to come here.
I'm curious about factual reasons he's not qualified. If it's just because you're one of those fans with your head in the clouds dreaming about poaching a high profile candidate from an established program, don't post that. SEC experience doesn't matter (see James Franklin and Urban Meyer) and it's not a gauge of success (see: derek dooley and sal sunseri).
I am seriously curious about why so many of you think he would be a poor fit.
Charlie Strong was a given to bring in top 10 classes. We don't know how Butch Jones would recruit. He has no ties down here, we don't know anything about his staff. There is just a lot of question marks. He could be good, but Strong we know would've upgraded this roster...
If Butch keeps Graham and Pittman and brings in Tee I wouldn't be upset.
Charlie Strong wasn't a given to bring in top 10 classes though. too many people had anointed him the savior. There's no way of knowing how he would do. that's why I'm asking. What factual information there is. Kids could say "i'd never play for Strong at L'vill but I would at UT" all day long, but kids also change their minds 3838273747 times a day. There's no guarantee he would have pulled in a great class.
Bring him in and get tee and other great recruiters and lets go
Too me the head coach is not as important as the staff he brings. All things the coach does well or doesn't can be helped by the right hirings
That's how I feel. Just give any HC a bunch of recruiters. It's obvious Jones can coach, it's just whether or not he can get the players...
FWIW I watched the Louisville Cincy game this year. Cincy dominated the game but just made silly turnovers and lost. While I think Strong would've recruited here better, and might have brought in better coaches, Butch Jones is the better in game HC.
I think after the years of Doolander we definitely need a better in game HC. He may not be the recruiter that Strong is (but, that's something we'll never truly know) but being at UT would automatically increase the chances of getting the big guys, particularly if he shows he can coach.
I suppose that's true, there are no "guarantees", but you make decisions based on probabilities and the information you have available. Strong, from what we "heard" and what we "know" has extensive ties in the south having coached at Floriday, SC, and now in Kentucky. I think it's fairly clear his players love him, and from the buzz generated during yesterdays circus, a lot of recruits were perking up there ears at the thought of Strong coaching for us. Not to mention the fact that he has been relatively successful at Louisville as a head coach.
I have heard zero buzz from recruits who cant wait for us to hire Butch Jones. He has no history of ties in the Southeast, has never had to recruit against the likes of Alabama, Georgia, LSU etc.. and, imo, is not going to generate much excitement amongst the base and among recruits. But just from a coaching record standpoint, im not impressed. He has not only not had to recruit against the big boys in the SEC, but he has not won at an elite level anywhere. So he has neither of the two most significant qualifications we should be looking for - proven experience and success in recruiting in the SEC, or winning at an elite level at another program. Does this mean he wont/cant be successful here? Of course not. My crystal ball doesnt work any better than yours does. But evaluating the probabilities, to me, Butch Jones has a much greater risk for us, too great for us to take a chance at THIS point in our programs history.
Butch Jones has won the Big East twice (including this year) beaten Charlie Strong twice, and has a 50-27 overall record at Central Michigan and Cincinnati. He's won 4 total conference championships. As someone said in another post, if you take out his first season in Cinci when they were decimated with injuries, he's 46-19.
Yea, he doesn't have the SEC recruiting experience, but he's definitely got the HC experience. He's gone 10-3 and 9-3 in the past 2 years at Cincinnati.
How is Charlie Strong a better candidate? Because he's got SEC recruiting experience? That doesn't equate to success anywhere. I think it's more important that Butch Jones has had success as a HC at two stops than that Charlie Strong has had 1 good year at Louisville and has recruiting ties to SEC locations. Butch Jones can bring in people to help with that. Again, James Franklin and Urban Meyer had no SEC experience when they came.
As far as energizing the fan base, I don't care at all about that. To be extremely blunt, who cares about that? There is no candidate out there, aside from Gruden or Stoops, that would have resonated well with the entire fan base. Most people probably wouldn't like the hire b/c they dont know anything about him and wouldnt look into his background. But the guy can coach, the record speaks for itself.
*note: i'm not suggesting past success will in anyway guarantee future success. simply stating that he's got a much better background than people are letting on when they bash him.
Strong posts Buckshot. I agree...Butch has strong crenedentials and I too am shocked everyone is so crushed by Strong. Most people over the last few weeks have had just as many concerns about Strong. To me, it just shows that Vol fans are ready to rally around a new start.
And sadly, I realize that most fans are too narrow minded to get past the Cincy loss to Dooley last yr. Nevermind that Dooley beat Butch Davis as well (dont care what the cheated outcome eneded up).
I posted something very similar last night comparing Jones and Fedora. He seems like a great candidate from a mid-major that would do very well.
Butch Jones may not be the "splash" hire that some are looking for, but pretty sure he can coach, and there are plenty of people out there in the football World who would see the hire for what it is "Football" decision & not politics.
He may not have SEC credentials, but the last time I checked there were plenty of 4 and 5 star recruits in the Cincinnati area that he would name name recognition with.
ESPN's Chris Mortenson is on record as being on board with a Butch Jones hire, his jon is analyzing football, I would imagine Butch Jones warrants consideration.
Probably my second Butch choice (after Davis), though. That guy needs a second chance. It is possible he was in the wrong place at the wrong time, twice (Miami, UNC), isn't it....?
this is exactly why i think so many people dont like the idea. b/c it's not the "sexy" hire. all i care about is if the guy can coach. Dooley could recruit fairly well, but it didn't translate into W's on the field. I think Jones is a much better coach and that he would be a good recruiter. My favorite thing about him is that he wants to come here. Is it b/c it's a big time job? Probably, but he still wants to come here. He's not a former player at any place of note (Ferris State) and he doesn't, from what i can tell, have any "allegiance" to a particular school like a Gundy or Kiffin. I really think he'd be a great football hire.
Hearing a lot of craziness right now though - Pelini, Rich Rod, Solich, and others. Butch Jones should be on the short list though, at this point...
i dont want to get hyper technical, but he has twice TIED for first in the Big East, but never gone to a BCS game. He beat one ranked team this year (Va Tech ranked #25) and lost to the other two ranked teams - Rutgers and Louisville and lost to TOLEDO as well. Charlie Strong will be coaching in a BCS bowl this year, has been a DC at two elite SEC programs and is a known superior recruiter. Im really not sure how, with a straight face, you can make a claim that Butch Jones is even a comparable hire to Charlie Strong.
Im not insulting you at all BuckShot, i appreciate a vigorous well reasoned debate on this, but it is truly lost on me how anyone looks at Butch Jones record and accomplishments and believes with reasonable certainty that he would be anything more than a mediocre hire for us.
And I completely disagree with you about the fan base. I think it's important that the base is behind the hire and fills the stadium. I think that kind of excitement and momentum has a way of rubbing off on recruits. And if recruits arent excited about the hire either, i dont care if you are vince lombardi, you arent going to get them to come to your school, and without elite recruits, you lose in the SEC.
as i posted on another thread, dont you want to hire someone who as been where we want to go?? to BCS bowl games? I honestly dont think we can take a chance on a hire like Butch Jones. He's not Brian Kelly. He is a decent football coach who has had decent success at a mid level school. College football is littered with coaches like him who failed making the leap to the big time.
Charlie Strong has been at 2 elite SEC programs, but he hasn't been THE guy. I firmly believe that Butch Jones has had more coaching success as a head coach than Charlie Strong has. The evidence is there to back that up and thats how i say he'd be a better hire completely straight faced. Having DC experience means nothing as a HC. Look at how many coordinators are great in that capacity but are not cut out to be a HC.
Charlie Strong was part of great staffs at those other schools, not the guy leading the staff. He was 7-6, 7-6 and now 10-2 going to the BCS bowl because of a conf. tie breaker. How do we know this isn't a one year wonder? Butch Jones won at Central Michigan and now Cincinnati. His bad year at cinci they had a ton of injuries. As far as being a superior recruiter, i'm sure he had a lot easier time at USCjr and Florida getting people to go there. I'm not taking anything away from him, but we both know it's easier to get guys to go to big time schools than the "lesser" programs.
And I definitely disagree witn you about Jones being a decent coach who has had decent success at a mid level school. He's won 65% of his games and done it at a school not at all known for football. He's beaten Charlie Strong twice. If he's just a decent coach with decent success, that means the same thing for charlie strong.
As far as the fans go. If he does his job and coaches the team and they win ball games, the stands will be filled. There's not a lot that's done in december that's going to get fans excited for Tennessee football. Whoever the new coach is is going to have to win to fill the stadium. Winning will create excitement, and I think butch jones is qualified to do that.
This post was edited by BuckShot JP 16 months ago
You did the right thing. You looked at facts. The facts are Butch Jones can coach and win at every level he has been at. Can he recruit in the SEC? We don't know that answer, but he will want to be successful and will find coaches that can recruit. Hire him. He wants the job.
He lost to Dooley.
He has ridden Brian Kelly's coattails at his 2 stops.
Buckshot, there is no doubting that Butch is a "winning" coach. But he has not demonstrated an aptitude for winning at an elite level. Your claim that you cant blame him for not making it to BCS bowl games or an elite level because he is at a "non-football" school like cincy is undermined by the fact that that is EXACTLY what Brian Kelly did the previous two years before Jones took over. Kelly went 12-0 his last year and took his team to a BCS bowl his last two years. THAT is why ND hired him. Do you think ND would hire Butch Jones with his record? Im going to say no chance. Why do you think the schools that are contending with us for Jones are Colorado and Purdue?? Are these really schools we want to be compared too?
Look at the DETAILS of his record. The teams he has beaten, the teams he has lost too. The ranked teams he has played. Any signature wins that you see? Plenty of signature losses, including a loss to Toledo this year. Again, i dont see what people are looking at in his record. He has a nice W-L record, no doubt. But it's not elite. It's not what Brian Kelly did when he parlayed a 12-0 season and a BCS bowl into a ND gig, and it's not what Urban Meyer did when he parlayed a 12-0 season at Utah into the UF gig. Losing to Toledo and 2 of the 3 ranked teams you play should NOT qualify you for the University of Tennessee head coaching position.
I wasn't saying I can't blame him for not making a BCS game because he's not at a football school. I wasn't saying that brian kelly's success means that Butch Jones would be successful, but his record is definitely promising.
My point, though, remains that he has a better resume as a HC than Charlie Strong. Who has Charlie Strong beaten? Look at the 3 years he's been there and tell me you see a signature win. I don't see it, but he just received a ridiculous increase courtesy of UT's willingness to overpay.
After watching this video and doing some research on Butch Jones, I'd be happy with him as our next HC. The only question is whether he can recruit in the SEC, but that's the gamble with most coaches.
Butch Jones was named 2011 Big East coach of the year. Here are some highlights of Coach Jones on the field and in the locker room.
1 Corinthians 16:13 Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
keeping those 3 maybe hinshaw...but since it was just reported butch just turned colorado down
i got gut feeling hes hired here...we have no choice to let it play out for the next 2 years.
if it dont work out then clean out the closet..hart..cheek..and this could be bad hire..
all because he had no kind of game plan..and with a backup..plan
ide bet hes hired and i would like to throw out there ..roman might be our best option
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