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How Long will it take for Tennessee?

  • How long do you All think it will actually take to get Tennessee football back on track again and actually have a chance to compete on a National Scale again? Do You All think that the coaching staff that has been hired for the Vols can draw the players that are actually needed to compete in the SEC? Lastly, how many losses will be tolerated by the Vol Fans over the next two years that would be acceptable knowing the Mess this coach has walked into? Would really love to hear your Take Vol Fans?

    Admiral 1966

  • I think I can better answer this question after the 2014 signing class because it has potential to be LOADED. If we do bring in a top 10 class in 2014 then I think its only a matter of another year or two after that before we are legit contenders in the SEC East. Some of that also depends on how this class finishes out with some of the big names (Lawson, Bell, Green, North, Kamara, Collins, ect.). I think if everything goes right we could be an 8-9 win team by 2015 season and legit SEC East contenders. As far as wins and losses tolerated over the next two seasons I won't put a ton of stock into it. What I will mainly look for is to see what kind of fight these boys have in them. Remember the Vandy game this year? It was horrible. I don't want to see that at all from CBJ's teams over the next couple of years. If we can make a bowl next year, even if its 6-6, I will take that. For year 2 I think we definitely need to make a bowl and be somewhere like 7-5, and have shown some big improvements from the year before. By year 3 that could set us up for that 8-9 win season with CBJ having 3 recruiting classes under his belt.

    You might want to bump this up in the morning to get some more (and probably better) responses

    This post was edited by chipw720 on 1/9/2013 at 12:36 AM

    chipw720 ●

  • chipw720 said...

    I think I can better answer this question after the 2014 signing class because it has potential to be LOADED. If we do bring in a top 10 class in 2014 then I think its only a matter of another year or two after that before we are legit contenders in the SEC East. Some of that also depends on how this class finishes out with some of the big names (Lawson, Bell, Green, North, Kamara, Collins, ect.). I think if everything goes right we could be an 8-9 win team by 2015 season and legit SEC East contenders. As far as wins and losses tolerated over the next two seasons I won't put a ton of stock into it. What I will mainly look for is to see what kind of fight these boys have in them. Remember the Vandy game this year? It was horrible. I don't want to see that at all from CBJ's teams over the next couple of years. If we can make a bowl next year, even if its 6-6, I will take that. For year 2 I think we definitely need to make a bowl and be somewhere like 7-5, and have shown some big improvements from the year before. By year 3 that could set us up for that 8-9 win season with CBJ having 3 recruiting classes under his belt.

    You might want to bump this up in the morning to get some more (and probably better) responses

    Your response sounds reasonable to me? The 2014 class you mentioned, why do you think this class is any better than the Vols has now? Are there like Major commits already?

    Admiral 1966

  • Admiral 1966 said...

    Your response sounds reasonable to me? The 2014 class you mentioned, why do you think this class is any better than the Vols has now? Are there like Major commits already?

    We only have one commit right now and that Vic Wharton (a legacy). The big prize of 2014 for the Vols could be Jalen Hurd. Some say Hurd is the best high school player ever to come out of the state of TN. He's currently rated the 10th best prospect in the coutry by 247. Then there's Todd Kelly Jr. a local Knoxville 4 star (a legacy). Josh Malone (4 star) is a top 100 4player from TN. Then there are the Berry twins Evan and Elliot, Eric's brothers. That's just some of the legacy and local players. Not to mention that Coach Jones will have a full year to recruit some of the country's elite talent. Guys like Azzanni, Jay Graham, Martinez, Elder, and Thigpen who, in my opinion, are great recruiters will also have a full year of developing relationships with these kids. I expect big things out of the 2014 class

    chipw720 ●

  • chipw720 said...

    We only have one commit right now and that Vic Wharton (a legacy). The big prize of 2014 for the Vols could be Jalen Hurd. Some say Hurd is the best high school player ever to come out of the state of TN. He's currently rated the 10th best prospect in the coutry by 247. Then there's Todd Kelly Jr. a local Knoxville 4 star (a legacy). Josh Malone (4 star) is a top 100 4player from TN. Then there are the Berry twins Evan and Elliot, Eric's brothers. That's just some of the legacy and local players. Not to mention that Coach Jones will have a full year to recruit some of the country's elite talent. Guys like Azzanni, Jay Graham, Martinez, Elder, and Thigpen who, in my opinion, are great recruiters will also have a full year of developing relationships with these kids. I expect big things out of the 2014 class

    So, these players you mention there All sons of former Tennessee players? Is that what you mean by a Legacy Player? Hasn't the Vols done this before, Recruit Legacy players, I remember those punters Tennessee had over the years (Colquitts) but don't ever remember any others that were as good as there dads but, I'm probably wrong on that commit?

    Admiral 1966

  • Personally I think that next years recruiting class will serve as the first very telling sign of what's to come. I don't think there is any question that this man can coach, if he can recruit the elite players and talent needed to compete with the rest of the conferences we will win games. The first thing I want see is this team compete for 60 minutes. I never want to see anything like the Vandy game again. However I think that is one of the brightsides to Butch Jones, I dont think we will ever see this team quit on him. The first year I think a 6-6 season and bowl game the first year can and hopefully will happen. If that does happen I want to see at least the same number of wins and improvements in other areas in year 2. Then it's year three that I hope to see the 8 win or more season and then in year 4 I hope we are able to compete for the East and more. Recruiting wise I hope he can make a couple more splashes this year. Next year with him having a full year to recruit and work that's when he should be able to show that he's gonna bring in the talent. If my expectations are a little to high as far as others feel then that makes sense, this is just what I would like to see.

    signature image signature image signature image

    #RiseToTheTop #RoadTo7 "Give him six"

    MiddleTNVol

  • 2015 or 2016 if you are talking about possibly winning 9 games. The only way 2014 becomes 8 wins is if this class really fills some key needs at OL and DL and DE and CB and WR and LB and we hit a few key jucos in the 2014 class.

    This was always a true 5 year rebuild and then Dooley not working out plus the loss of about half his top players over the last 2+ years has set us back again.

    IMO just hope we can win the games we should win and can win and then 1 more from a game like FL or USCe or UGA in 2013. Then the same again in 2014 + 2 of those rival games. 6 wins is a great O/U in 2013.

    SamVolsam

  • Great discussion guys. I'm with y'all on this. I think we'll see a more fiery team this fall. I think CBJ will accept nothing less. +1 to all GO VOLS!

    BUTCH IS NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART. GO VOLS!

    OrangeNCarolina ●

  • OrangeNCarolina said...

    Great discussion guys. I'm with y'all on this. I think we'll see a more fiery team this fall. I think CBJ will accept nothing less. +1 to all GO VOLS!

    We will play better on D....my only worry is a consistent pass rush and DBs of course but hopefully another year helps both plus simplifying the def scheme makes everyone play faster....we will be able to run the ball well.........we need a QB to really step up and WR to really develop too.

    SamVolsam

  • It seems like with every new coach we've hired before, the answer was "3 or more years."

    Baugamania

  • Baugamania said...

    It seems like with every new coach we've hired before, the answer was "3 or more years."

    When Kiffin was hired he even made the comment that roster would get worse in 2011 bc of the lack of experienced/veteran talent that would be lost from 2009-2010 bc of the pathetic 2007-2008 classes. So 2013 would have been his year IMO

    When Dooley was hired.......same reasons as above + add in the pathetic class of 2009 in the end made 2013 his year IF we would have won just a few more games like KY, Vandy, LSU, UNC, and I will toss in USCe and Mizzou this past year. BUT how bad would it hurt losing Bray, CP, Hunter, Rogers, and prob other JRs too with that success like James and McCullers etc? Maybe 2014 was his year in the end when you talk about being "back"....every expert I talked to said it was a 5 year rebuild for Dooley and why he had a 6 year deal and a huge buyout and why no one really wanted the job in Jan 2010. The only way to fast forward that IMO was win the games I mentioned above and get lucky with keeping players for their SR year + winning improves recruiting. He only had 1 year to fix our DB issues........2011. No way can 1st yr players in 2012 be called on to fix all the issues we had from the lack of recruiting good DBs for 4 years.

    When Jones was hired...IMO it is 2015 and maybe even 2016 (to be really back) IF we can land a really solid 2013 and 2014 class and fill our needs. Why? We lose our whole starting Oline and Dline from 2012 duing the next year minus OG M Jackson heading into 2014. And we still have huge needs at DB and we are just too young at WR to go with starting a new qb in 2013.

    This post was edited by SamVolsam on 1/9/2013 at 9:12 AM

    SamVolsam

  • A lot of good questions OP.
    - 3 years is fair to start competing again IMO, the losses on the line are really going to hurt us the year after next. We might surprise some people this year, but that shouldn't be expected with a new QB, and new systems on O and D.
    - The legacy boom is coming at a good time for the program, but I am not sold it will be enough. Its not just about "loving UT", it is about fitting into what the program is doing and developing once you are in it.
    - What really hurt the program IMO is this years team inability to win close games. UF, UGA, MSU, SCar, Mizzou were all games that we were in a position to win and lost. Blame coaching, clutch performances, leadership, (I think it was a combination) but those are the close type games that led ND to go 12-0 and us to miss a bowl. We had the talent to be back last year.
    - I don't know how many losses CBJ can take the first two years. My guess is he has to be bowl eligible by year 2, and top 3 in the SEC East by year 3.

    bavw

  • Baugamania said...

    It seems like with every new coach we've hired before, the answer was "3 or more years."

    True but there is some legitimacy to that statement. As mentioned above, the introduction of a new coach means the introduction of a new system. More often than not, a new system/scheme requires recruitment of a particular type of player. A new coach means there is some attrition that guaranteed to put the program back. Lastly, you have to consider the fact that other teams don’t have to "rebuild" with a new coach, system, players, etc. This ultimately means that you will not only have to restructure internally but UT will likely have to play catch-up to a number of established programs. All-in-all, I think 3-4 years is realistic.

    utkdominic

  • We have the best OL in the country, 4 of our starting front 7 positions are elite, and we have a really good pair of safeties. With the right recruits, we could compete in 2013.

    volfan28

  • My optimistic answer.

    If the kids buy into what Jones is saying and the right pieces put together, I think we could compete as early as this year. This year will be key just because we will get to see what mettle this coaching staff has. I'm a believer that coaching can overcome some of the problems of "stars." Not all, but some. Does that mean I'm predicting UT will compete for an SEC title? Heck no. But I do think they'll be some opportunities to actually get an upset or two. Based upon what I've seen from replays of past games, I'm just a lot more optimistic that CBJ is a better football coach than Dooley will ever be. I think there's a chance of 8 or 9 wins before bowling.

    Realistic answer?
    On a national level? Would probably take three years.

    Rocklion2000 ●

  • volfan28 said...

    We have the best OL in the country, 4 of our starting front 7 positions are elite, and we have a really good pair of safeties. With the right recruits, we could compete in 2013.

    i agree volfan28 ..i look for a better year then would think..however if we dont and i see improvment'''that will give me some hope looking foward to 2014-2015.

    anyway we paint this we are looking at another 5 years..and as long as butch is recruiting and moving in the right direction..we all cant rush and judge and stay the course for worst to better
    if not we aint going to get back on track...i do think coach jones beats the vandys,mizz,miss,
    and could beat south c,florida,georgia out those 3 we could go 2-1-1-3 or 03

    we are not as bad as our record showed this past season .when dooley lost the team after florida
    i think..or half the team anyways..the hand writing was on the wall for us.

    we now have a coach with fire and passion to win and coach these young men up and show them love at the same time...that goes along ways..further then dooley and kiffin couldnt do
    just my 2 cents...go vols

    vols4life1969 ●

  • I think to compete for an SEC East crown within three years, this year, UT has to get to 8 wins. If they can win some games (perhaps including an upset over USCe or UGA), then they probably have a very good 2014 recruiting class. however, 2014 on the field could be a little rough. They need a very good '14 class to really compete in 2015.

    DCVOL ●

  • I just think that we are going to run wild. I really do. WE HAVE THE BEST OL IN THE COUNTRY. Just because we'll have a spread offense doesn't mean we can't run it down people's throats.

    Look at Oregon. They ran for 426 on USC, 198 on Stanford, and 219 on Kansas State. Ok.. maybe that's a bad example. Peterman and Neal aren't exactly Mariotta and Barner.

    Well, just look at A&M. Oh wait. Ok.. we really need a true dual-threat QB.

    How about this? Ole Miss. Nathan Peterman and Bo Wallace have very similar skill sets. Butch and Freeze have very similar offenses and UT has better RBs. Now, they did have Donte Moncrief making plays at WR. But between Pig, Bowles, Croom, Blanc, Jenkins, and maybe even Marquez North - surely we can find SOMEONE to catch the ball, especially if we sign North. One thing is certain; our OL is a group of bad asses and that makes things easier for everybody. Ole Miss had a great year on offense, but I see no reason why we shouldn't be able to put up comparable numbers. FWIW, they finished 5th in the league in total offense, 5th in rushing, and 5th in passing.

    Shall we compare our 2013 schedule with their 2012 schedule? WE SHALL! Just to make things easy, first look at their losses: Texas, @Bama, @Georgia, @LSU, A&M, Vandy. And their SEC wins: Missouri, Auburn, MSU. Looking at UT's toughest games: @Oregon, @Bama, @Florida, UGA, USC, Vandy. SEC games we should win: Missouri, Auburn, Kentucky.

    I see no reason why we shouldn't go at least 6-6 (like Ole Miss), and be competitive against great teams (like Ole Miss). If we do these things; our recruiting will get a major boost (like Ole Miss), our fanbase will be energized (Ole Miss), and we will be poised to make a run (like Ole Miss). Oh yes, and I will have a man-crush on Butch similar to my man-crutch on Freeze biggrin

    volfan28

  • Looking at our schedule for next year I don't think it's being to optimistic saying we could win 8 games. I guarantee we will beat Austin Peay, Western Kentucky, South Alabama, Missouri, Auburn, and Kentucky. That's 6 wins right there. Then win 2 of the Oregon, Alabama, South Carolina, Georgia, Vandy, and Florida. I'd put my money on Vandy and South Carolina. Vandy because we own them and its in Neyland. South Carolina because its coming off of a bye week and its also in Neyland and it will be their 4th game in a row without a bye. 8 wins would almost guarantee a great 2014 class and that would really expidite this 'when will Tennessee be relevant agian' process.

    chipw720 ●

  • volfan28 said...

    I just think that we are going to run wild. I really do. WE HAVE THE BEST OL IN THE COUNTRY. Just because we'll have a spread offense doesn't mean we can't run it down people's throats.

    Look at Oregon. They ran for 426 on USC, 198 on Stanford, and 219 on Kansas State. Ok.. maybe that's a bad example. Peterman and Neal aren't exactly Mariotta and Barner.

    Well, just look at A&M. Oh wait. Ok.. we really need a true dual-threat QB.

    How about this? Ole Miss. Nathan Peterman and Bo Wallace have very similar skill sets. Butch and Freeze have very similar offenses and UT has better RBs. Now, they did have Donte Moncrief making plays at WR. But between Pig, Bowles, Croom, Blanc, Jenkins, and maybe even Marquez North - surely we can find SOMEONE to catch the ball, especially if we sign North. One thing is certain; our OL is a group of bad asses and that makes things easier for everybody. Ole Miss had a great year on offense, but I see no reason why we shouldn't be able to put up comparable numbers. FWIW, they finished 5th in the league in total offense, 5th in rushing, and 5th in passing.

    Shall we compare our 2013 schedule with their 2012 schedule? WE SHALL! Just to make things easy, first look at their losses: Texas, @Bama, @Georgia, @LSU, A&M, Vandy. And their SEC wins: Missouri, Auburn, MSU. Looking at UT's toughest games: @Oregon, @Bama, @Florida, UGA, USC, Vandy. SEC games we should win: Missouri, Auburn, Kentucky.

    I see no reason why we shouldn't go at least 6-6 (like Ole Miss), and be competitive against great teams (like Ole Miss). If we do these things; our recruiting will get a major boost (like Ole Miss), our fanbase will be energized (Ole Miss), and we will be poised to make a run (like Ole Miss). Oh yes, and I will have a man-crush on Butch similar to my man-crutch on Freeze biggrin

    We shall call ourselves the Black Smokies! (like Ole Miss). JK. Great post man
    +1

    chipw720 ●

  • chipw720 said...

    We shall call ourselves the Black Smokies! (like Ole Miss). JK. Great post man +1

    lol

    volfan28

  • Oh yeah.. one difference between the team Butch inherited and the team Freeze inherited that I forgot to mention. Ole Miss was coming off back-to-back two win seasons.

    volfan28

  • volfan28 said...

    I just think that we are going to run wild. I really do. WE HAVE THE BEST OL IN THE COUNTRY. Just because we'll have a spread offense doesn't mean we can't run it down people's throats.

    Look at Oregon. They ran for 426 on USC, 198 on Stanford, and 219 on Kansas State. Ok.. maybe that's a bad example. Peterman and Neal aren't exactly Mariotta and Barner.

    Well, just look at A&M. Oh wait. Ok.. we really need a true dual-threat QB.

    How about this? Ole Miss. Nathan Peterman and Bo Wallace have very similar skill sets. Butch and Freeze have very similar offenses and UT has better RBs. Now, they did have Donte Moncrief making plays at WR. But between Pig, Bowles, Croom, Blanc, Jenkins, and maybe even Marquez North - surely we can find SOMEONE to catch the ball, especially if we sign North. One thing is certain; our OL is a group of bad asses and that makes things easier for everybody. Ole Miss had a great year on offense, but I see no reason why we shouldn't be able to put up comparable numbers. FWIW, they finished 5th in the league in total offense, 5th in rushing, and 5th in passing.

    Shall we compare our 2013 schedule with their 2012 schedule? WE SHALL! Just to make things easy, first look at their losses: Texas, @Bama, @Georgia, @LSU, A&M, Vandy. And their SEC wins: Missouri, Auburn, MSU. Looking at UT's toughest games: @Oregon, @Bama, @Florida, UGA, USC, Vandy. SEC games we should win: Missouri, Auburn, Kentucky.

    I see no reason why we shouldn't go at least 6-6 (like Ole Miss), and be competitive against great teams (like Ole Miss). If we do these things; our recruiting will get a major boost (like Ole Miss), our fanbase will be energized (Ole Miss), and we will be poised to make a run (like Ole Miss). Oh yes, and I will have a man-crush on Butch similar to my man-crutch on Freeze biggrin

    6-6 would be my guess right now.

    New offensive scheme. New QB. Young WRs. DB issues. Lack of good pass rushers minus our OLB Maggitt who has to play WDE in sub packages and then strength is an issue too. Kicking game. New coaches...there is a bit of an adjustment.

    The pluses: Simple 4-3 scheme (allows our players to play faster), New players (2013s class but they are true FR mostly), OLine in awesome, DTs are solid, players are 1 yr older and wiser and better coached in some cases we hope, motivational coach in Jones, new energy in the program, new indoor training facility might even help some.

    This post was edited by SamVolsam on 1/9/2013 at 11:15 AM

    SamVolsam

  • SamVolsam said...

    When Kiffin was hired he even made the comment that roster would get worse in 2011 bc of the lack of experienced/veteran talent that would be lost from 2009-2010 bc of the pathetic 2007-2008 classes. So 2013 would have been his year IMO

    When Dooley was hired.......same reasons as above + add in the pathetic class of 2009 in the end made 2013 his year IF we would have won just a few more games like KY, Vandy, LSU, UNC, and I will toss in USCe and Mizzou this past year. BUT how bad would it hurt losing Bray, CP, Hunter, Rogers, and prob other JRs too with that success like James and McCullers etc? Maybe 2014 was his year in the end when you talk about being "back"....every expert I talked to said it was a 5 year rebuild for Dooley and why he had a 6 year deal and a huge buyout and why no one really wanted the job in Jan 2010. The only way to fast forward that IMO was win the games I mentioned above and get lucky with keeping players for their SR year + winning improves recruiting. He only had 1 year to fix our DB issues........2011. No way can 1st yr players in 2012 be called on to fix all the issues we had from the lack of recruiting good DBs for 4 years.

    When Jones was hired...IMO it is 2015 and maybe even 2016 (to be really back) IF we can land a really solid 2013 and 2014 class and fill our needs. Why? We lose our whole starting Oline and Dline from 2012 duing the next year minus OG M Jackson heading into 2014. And we still have huge needs at DB and we are just too young at WR to go with starting a new qb in 2013.

    Shows how stupid Kiffin was IMO! UT's recruiting classes 2007= #3. 2008= #35. 2009= #10. He may have had a point about 2008 but 07 & 09 were not to shabby and not "pathetic" by any means

    Vol_Nation_79

  • Vol_Nation_79 said...

    Shows how stupid Kiffin was IMO! UT's recruiting classes 2007= #3. 2008= #35. 2009= #10. He may have had a point about 2008 but 07 & 09 were not to shabby and not "pathetic" by any means

    Not sure I follow you........2007 fell absolutely apart with attrition and is now viewed as one of the worst SEC classes ever along with 2009..........then 2008 addressed nothing after going to the SEC title game in 2007.

    SamVolsam

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