Online Now 745

The CheckerBoard

The place for inside information on the Tennessee Vols

On this Board 382
Record: 4783 (12/9/2012)

Online now 678
Record: 6475 (12/7/2012)

Reply

I have no idea why I am about to post this but.....

  • VolsfaninSC said...

    No this isnt about being unhappy with the experience on the board. This is about more and more people having zero understanding anymore. More and more people are forgetting the hole Fulmer/Kiffin left us in after they left. I am a stats guy, and here are a few more.

    We didnt have a full 85 roster scholarship limit until this year. We are in a new defensive scheme. We lost our top 2 tailbacks for the second half of MS st. game.

    Is that a coaching problem? JMO, NO its not a coaching problem. I get that people are unhappy. I am not happy with losing. NO one in their right mind is 'happy' with losing. I am happy with seeing progress. A whole bunch of the negative people wanted to see progress in the running game and being in the game until the end. Guess what??????? The last 2 games on the road at night we have been underdogs. And we were in the game until the end.

    I have said it before and will say it again. This not about accepting losing. It is not about being happy about losing. It is about understanding why we lost and NOT blaming it on coaching. I could see saying we got outcoached if we were in a 3rd year of a Justin Wilcox defense and losing. Our offense is keeping us in games. The defense is what is killing us, but you cant really expect anything different. You can hope for better play out of the defense but being a new scheme is what is killing us. You cant expect the players on defense to magically change what they have been taught in just 6 games.

    I had high expectations for this team coming into this season. Seeing them progress is one of them. And the have progressed. I knew coming into this our Defense would be ranked in 90's maybe worse. But guess what? We are not getting blown out in the second half of games like we did in the 7 games we lost last season. And that is even with the new defensive scheme. Blame it on coaching all you want, but I point to Florida last season. They had a new defensive scheme and were horrible on defense. Second year they look great(it also helps that Meyer left muschamp in far better shape than kiffin left us).

    Completely agree with you SC. To be honest, it's our world of instant gratification now. If we don't know something, we can just "google it" and get the answer. We're in a world that forgets the process that some things have to have in order to become better. There is such a process that goes into rebuilding a program like TN. Like it or not, we are rebuilding, no reloading like FL or other schools are.

    People also want to compare Cuonzo and the bball program to Dooley and football. Again, completely different. Pearl didn't leave the program like Fulmer and Kiffin did. Fulmer and Kiffin left it on the decline, with losing seasons and a diminished roster. Pearl left bball on the up and up and improving, to where we were relevant. The only way we were relevant with Kiffin was in the media and him running his mouth, but not on the field.

    I have high expectations, just as any other fan, but realistically, I just have to look for improvement from year to year, which we've seen. I've also seen better adjustments throughout the game, which is improved from last year. Prime example is how the defense adjusted and showed up more in the 2nd half, compared to the first. The same can be said in the GA game.

    We can't expect this forever, but Dooley and Co are at least due the respect of having next year to prove their worth. I'm starting to agree with people that we have to most unrealistic fan base around.

    Philippians 2:3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.

    ChrisUT

  • Because you are only contributing to the problem and killing recruiting. Exactly what positively do you think your bitching and moaning is going to accomplish. Cooler heads are aware of the entire situation and will make decisions in the programs best interest. We just need to stop contributing to problem.

    atruevol

  • DownTheField said...

    This has been one of the more enjoyable threads to read through since last night. It is truly refreshing.

    As far as comparing schools, I'm not going to address all the recruiting stats for LSU, Bama, MSU, USCe, or UF, but I am going to give you something to chew on when it comes to a specific period of Tennessee recruiting. (I realize this has been done before, but a fresh reminder never hurts):

    Players who signed from 2007-2009 that did not pan out, was dismissed from the team, or transferred:

    Nick Stephens (transfer) Todd Campbell (transfer) Montori Hughes (dismissed) Bryce Brown (transfer) Darren Myles (dismissed) Janzen Jackson (dismissed) Nu'Keese Richardson (dismissed) David Oku (transfer) Chris Donald (transfer ?) Rolando Melancon (dismissed, and actually wound up at La Tech, and Dooley dismissed him from the team) Rae Sykes (dismissed) Ahmad Paige (transfer) Josh Hawkins (quit) Darris Sawtelle (transfer) Rufus Williams B.J. Coleman (transfer) Tyler Maples (transfer) Cory Hall William Brimfield (transfer) Kenny O'Neal (transfer) E.J. Abrams-Ward (dismissed) Casey Kelly (drafted-MLB) Preston Bailey (quit) Stephaun Raines (dismissed) Mike Edwards (dismissed) Nyshier Oliver Arthur Jeffery Nick Lamaison (transfer) Toney Williams (transfer)

    29 out of 74 players, in 3 years, were dismissed, transferred, quit, or just never reached their potential (and that's not considering some of the players from those classes that are still on the team and have yet to make their stamp on this program, many 4*s). That is nearly 40% !!! It is literally as if we had an entire season of ZERO commitments. An entire year of no recruiting. In 2008, we had less commitments than players lost over that span (2008 - 19 commitments, 3 year span - 25 departures, at least) Now, please, please do not try and say that Muschamp, Chizik, Saban, Spurrier (though his situation was much, much worse than the aforementioned coaches) or Mullen's situation even half way resembled that attrition and overall lost time/effort/resources/talent/depth/traction. I'm sure someone will find something to nic-pic, but the fact of the matter is, IMO, that there is no comparison. twocents

    You forgot Aaron Douglas.
    It would have been nice to have had Darren Myles, Janzen Jackson and Mike Edwards in the secondary now. I know Jackson may have left after last year anyhow.

    volinupstatesc

  • VolsfaninSC said...

    This will be my last post for a while......I am only going to use this to keep up with recruiting from now on. I see more and more people succumbing to the negativity side of things about the coaching staff and blaming everything on them.

    There is no understanding about our situation for a lot of people anymore. So I am just going to throw this out there....

    Why did Saban deserve to become LSU's coach? Record from MICH St. 6-5,6-6,7-5,6-6,9-2 before getting to LSU. Not exactly stellar and LSU was in better shape than we were. In Sabans third year as head coach he went 8-5 with a Bowl win. But yet he deserved more time lol. Dan Mullen Digressed in his third year going 7-6 with a bowl win. Yet he got a 4th year and look at them now. Spurrier is the ULTIMATE example:

    7-5,8-5,6-6,7-6,7-6,9-5,11-2. Wow. After 5 seasons he didnt more than 8 games. And they were coached by Lou Holtz who made Notre Dame what it was in the 80's and 90's. His last 3 seasons with South Carolina were bad but still left them in much better shape for Spurrier than Fulmer and Kiffin ever did for UT. You guys kill me....

    I am out.....

    The Spurrier example is right on.SC was a mess left by Holtz (an overrated windbag if ever there was one). The Fulmer finish and the Kiffin debacle left us in a mess. It took Spurrier a long time to change the culture, but he had the advantage of (a) his experience and reputation, and ( b) a fan base accustomed to mediocrity which was generous enough to give him the time he needed. Our losses this year are gut-wrenching, and, to a fan base with higher expectations, so very hard to take, but, if our coaches can keep this team together and finish strong, they deserve to keep working "the process" to bring us back to where we want to be.

    elderbro

  • coonhound said...

    Means more new schemes, another lost recruiting class and there just isn't a lot to chose from for a new hire. (Don't give me no Chucky responses, you are dreaming) The succumbing to mediocrity comment somewhere above is malarkey (had to use that, I'm Irish). You cannot snap your fingers and get immediate results. We had isht for players when Dooley came on board. We have 2 of his recruiting classes in the system now (no...his one month of recruiting when he was hired does not count), I don't see anything but upside. Yep, he's a young coach relatively speaking and yes, he has a lot to learn but dayum, I fear the further destruction of our program with the results of another turnover moreso than I fear his ability to coach. If you want instant gratification there are quicker ways to that than following a rebuilding college football program (had to throw that in too ;) ). Making excuses for mediocrity? Hell no! Using some patience and a lot of toughness as this thing slowly is put back together again? Hell yes. Be tough y'all

    Just an outsiders observation, but what you want in your program is consistency, not inconsistency. You have to give a coach 5 years to get his staff solidified and players for his system in place. You had a man of poor ethics running your program for a year and then ran out on you after he screwed things up for you (Kiffin.) You have a coach of very high character, with longevity, will earn high marks with high school coaches and gradually improve recruiting. You have an excellent team, with needs on defense. Give Dooley a year or two to get the defense straightened out and you will be back challenging in the East within a year or two.

    Bulldog Backer

  • Bulldog Backer said...

    Just an outsiders observation, but what you want in your program is consistency, not inconsistency. You have to give a coach 5 years to get his staff solidified and players for his system in place. You had a man of poor ethics running your program for a year and then ran out on you after he screwed things up for you (Kiffin.) You have a coach of very high character, with longevity, will earn high marks with high school coaches and gradually improve recruiting. You have an excellent team, with needs on defense. Give Dooley a year or two to get the defense straightened out and you will be back challenging in the East within a year or two.

    +1 Great post! I wish more of our fans saw it this way, but I understand the frustrations too. I think we're playing better football than last year, but it seems like everyone we've played is playing much better than last year. Unfortunately, the next two teams are playing better too... Thanks for coming over and sharing the comments.

    allwillbeorange

  • Bulldog Backer said...

    Just an outsiders observation, but what you want in your program is consistency, not inconsistency. You have to give a coach 5 years to get his staff solidified and players for his system in place. You had a man of poor ethics running your program for a year and then ran out on you after he screwed things up for you (Kiffin.) You have a coach of very high character, with longevity, will earn high marks with high school coaches and gradually improve recruiting. You have an excellent team, with needs on defense. Give Dooley a year or two to get the defense straightened out and you will be back challenging in the East within a year or two.

    ^^^ This
    Someone hit him with a +1...i'm out of upvotes again. preciatecha

    signature image

    1 Corinthians 16:13 Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.

    DownTheField

  • VolsfaninSC said...

    This will be my last post for a while......I am only going to use this to keep up with recruiting from now on. I see more and more people succumbing to the negativity side of things about the coaching staff and blaming everything on them.

    There is no understanding about our situation for a lot of people anymore. So I am just going to throw this out there....

    Why did Saban deserve to become LSU's coach? Record from MICH St. 6-5,6-6,7-5,6-6,9-2 before getting to LSU. Not exactly stellar and LSU was in better shape than we were. In Sabans third year as head coach he went 8-5 with a Bowl win. But yet he deserved more time lol. Dan Mullen Digressed in his third year going 7-6 with a bowl win. Yet he got a 4th year and look at them now. Spurrier is the ULTIMATE example:

    7-5,8-5,6-6,7-6,7-6,9-5,11-2. Wow. After 5 seasons he didnt more than 8 games. And they were coached by Lou Holtz who made Notre Dame what it was in the 80's and 90's. His last 3 seasons with South Carolina were bad but still left them in much better shape for Spurrier than Fulmer and Kiffin ever did for UT. You guys kill me....

    I am out.....

    Please don't give in to the negativity. I really feel if we give it one more year that we will turn the corner. This is from a man who is being evaluated for cancer( I had a kidney removed for cancer 19 yrs ago). I plan to stick to this website and OUR Vols to the end. Throw a prayer my way if you can---it puts life in perspective. GO VOLS!

    volmd

  • volmd said...

    Throw a prayer my way if you can---it puts life in perspective. GO VOLS!

    Done.

    "Hour by hour I place my days in your hand, safe from the hands out to get me."
    Psalm 31:15

    One of my favorites and has gotten me through some rough times.

    signature image

    1 Corinthians 16:13 Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.

    DownTheField

  • VolsfaninSC said...

    This will be my last post for a while......I am only going to use this to keep up with recruiting from now on. I see more and more people succumbing to the negativity side of things about the coaching staff and blaming everything on them.

    There is no understanding about our situation for a lot of people anymore. So I am just going to throw this out there....

    I would tend to agree with you more, but I don't see any more than a few quality players signing with us each year. It takes more than that to move up in the college football world. Even Bill Battle signed Stanley Morgan! I also fail to see the players that we are getting, being coached up.
    I am not on the "Fire Dooley" bandwagon, but I am becoming more and more discouraged as time goes forward. It is not so much the wins and losses, just the lack of obvious improvement.

    bloodrunorange

  • Well golly guys, I sure hope our'n football team can win this game this weekend. Now I don't have an opinion on how they've played, because if'n I did it would be detrimental to 'crootin and I ain't got any power over whether Mister Dooley gets hahred or fahred anyway. I've found that in lahf if'n you don't have the power to change a situation it's basically best just to ignore it...mmhmm.

    Am I doing it right?

    Honestly I have no problem with people saying they feel Dooley needs more time, or that the situation was stacked against him. But this nonsense about anyone calling a spade a spade behaving in a negative or childish manner is incredibly stupid. I hope Dooley works out and they win every game the rest of the season, but it's more obnoxious to me to have all these people pretending like there isn't a problem, and that the fact that complaining on a message board isn't going to change anything. Well thanks for stating the obvious, but defending the guy on the message board isn't going to change anything either. The entire purpose of message boards is to discuss and debate whatever topic they happen to cover. On this one it's Tennessee football, and that means the good and the bad. You people acting like anyone who doesn't share your mentality is an idiot are just as bad as the guys typing in caps with broken English raging against the coach.

    JPSke

  • allwillbeorange said...

    Couldn't have said it better myself!

    Good to have you home. I was thinking about you the other day. +1 for your service.

    tnbear66

  • OrangeNCarolina said...

    tnbear, I hope that you will continue to post even though you refrain from reading all the posts. Your posts are and have been some of my favorites. The board needs your opinions to balance out. I understand the frustrations being experienced by the fans and by the more senior posters on this board. I was so emotionally invested in the game last night that I felt physically sick during the game. After the game, I immediately felt physically better. And today I feel emotionally better. No poster or group of posters will change my perspective on the Vols. The kids and the coaches change from time to time but my support for Tennessee does not. GO VOLS!

    Thanks for the kind words and back at you. I will never stop cheering for my Vols and will continue to occasionally post. Who knows, I may change my mind. I've done that before.biggrin

    tnbear66

  • A real Vol fan! There are many more like us. GBO..

    VOLS 35 BAMA 31

    signature image

    MIDTENNVOL

  • tnbear66 said...

    Good to have you home. I was thinking about you the other day. +1 for your service.

    Thanks, man! Good to be home!!!! Don't make me drive up to ATL and hold a horse hostage until you start posting again...

    allwillbeorange

  • JPSke said...

    Well golly guys, I sure hope our'n football team can win this game this weekend. Now I don't have an opinion on how they've played, because if'n I did it would be detrimental to 'crootin and I ain't got any power over whether Mister Dooley gets hahred or fahred anyway. I've found that in lahf if'n you don't have the power to change a situation it's basically best just to ignore it...mmhmm.

    Am I doing it right?

    Honestly I have no problem with people saying they feel Dooley needs more time, or that the situation was stacked against him. But this nonsense about anyone calling a spade a spade behaving in a negative or childish manner is incredibly stupid. I hope Dooley works out and they win every game the rest of the season, but it's more obnoxious to me to have all these people pretending like there isn't a problem, and that the fact that complaining on a message board isn't going to change anything. Well thanks for stating the obvious, but defending the guy on the message board isn't going to change anything either. The entire purpose of message boards is to discuss and debate whatever topic they happen to cover. On this one it's Tennessee football, and that means the good and the bad. You people acting like anyone who doesn't share your mentality is an idiot are just as bad as the guys typing in caps with broken English raging against the coach.

    The hillbilly humor is kinda insulting. Please don't disrespect Southern Appalachia, or Wes might bring out the rue.

    allwillbeorange

  • Why are so many people gonna stop posting because they don't agree with everyone. Kinda childish take my ball and go home. This site is lil too emotional.

    hackburgman

  • hackburgman said...

    Why are so many people gonna stop posting because they don't agree with everyone. Kinda childish take my ball and go home. This site is lil too emotional.

    Is that what they said, or are you just making that assumption?

    allwillbeorange

  • allwillbeorange said...

    Is that what they said, or are you just making that assumption?

    Just seems like every thread is someone gonna stop posting. I just don't see why. This board is what I love about this site. Always something going on. Its great just hate to see people leave. I don't think anything personal just different views.

    hackburgman

  • hackburgman said...

    Just seems like every thread is someone gonna stop posting. I just don't see why. This board is what I love about this site. Always something going on. Its great just hate to see people leave. I don't think anything personal just different views.

    Think it may be due to disappointment in results vs. agreement with comments. We've agreed to disagree long before you got here, so I don't think that's anything new. Welcome to the board, by the way.

    allwillbeorange

  • hackburgman said...

    Just seems like every thread is someone gonna stop posting. I just don't see why. This board is what I love about this site. Always something going on. Its great just hate to see people leave. I don't think anything personal just different views.

    I don't know if it's exactly a productive discussion at times.

    The "Fire Dooley" crowd seems to, for the most part, ignore the arguments about getting a 4th coach in 6 years, and the dire situation which Dooley inherited. They point to other programs who experienced instant or near-instant success. Heck, they point to how Tennessee is one of the greatest programs in college football history, and deserves better than 0-13 against ranked teams and only beating Vandy, Kentucky, and Ole Miss. All of these things are true.

    The "Keep Dooley" or "Give Him Time" crowd, for the most part, divert attention from whatever in-game mistakes Dooley and the staff make, put spin on the fact 7 coaches left during the off-season, explain away defensive struggles by blaming the transition, like to bring up the player attrition, and also show stats from other now-successful coaches from their earlier days. Once again, all of these things are true.

    I've seen quite a few personal attacks (rather specific or generally aimed), and no one likes that. I mean, that's something politicians do. And no one likes those guys, right?

    For the record, I keep going back and forth. Emotions run high after a game for everyone. It's really easy to say "Fire Dooley." The statistics against him are bad. But when you listen to some voices near the program and even to outsider perspectives, it makes a fair amount of sense to give the guy a chance to implement what he's set out to do. Remember how when he met with Hamilton he had a binder outlining his goals for the program with specific deadlines and timetables? In the real world, sometimes those things get set back and you have to adjust on the fly. I believe we're experiencing that right now.

    How many of you were fantastic at your job from day 1? Year 3? Year 5? I've worked with people who I thought were never going to make anything out of themselves, and seen them get better and get promotions once they were in the right situation with the right opportunity.

    Perhaps Derek Dooley isn't done getting better as a football coach. Or maybe he is at his limit and needs to go. That's up to Dave Hart and the BOT to decide.

    Baugamania

  • hackburgman said...

    Why are so many people gonna stop posting because they don't agree with everyone. Kinda childish take my ball and go home. This site is lil too emotional.

    Do not take this personal man, but one reason is because of posts like this.
    Yet again, do not take this personal.
    "Kinda childish take my ball and go home". Whether it's true or not, it can be misconstrued as a personal shot at other members. And we, men, do not take well to personal shots. I guess you could say we are a little defensive, especially when our integrity, character, man-hood, intelligence, work ethic, etc. is questioned. Granted, no one, or at least I hope not, is trying to verbally attack anyone on a person level, but this is the internet. And in case you haven't noticed, keyboards can't show the emotion or emphasis behind a persons comments.
    Also, it has a lot to do with members being hard headed (i'm one of them). Most of the "Fire Dooley" crowd will not acknowledge most facts of the past few years when speaking of recruiting, attrition, turnover, etc. On the flip side, the majority of the "Keep Dooley" crowd usually skims over the obvious coaching discrepancies that have happened in the recent losses (yet again, I'm one of them). And why is this the case ? Because if a poster from either camp admits one of the above issues, then they are giving the other poster a small victory. It's what we do. We're men. We don't like to lose.....ever. Whether it's a football game or a message board discussion.
    Overall, I think the posts have been fair, barring a few that just completely ignore facts, one way or the other. But this is a message board. It's their opinion, and this is America. People can give their opinion.
    How has everything I've posted in the past 2 days turned into a novel ? Geesh. shrug

    P.S. I didn't realize Baugamania basically said the same thing about the "Fire Dooley" and "Keep Dooley" crowd until I finished my post. And I agree with his assessment.

    This post was edited by DownTheField on 10/15/2012 at 11:53 PM

    signature image

    1 Corinthians 16:13 Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.

    DownTheField

Tennessee
247Sports
Features
Resources
Connect

247Sports In partnership with CBS Sports