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I'm gonna say my piece and be done...

  • Thanks for a very logical thought and post. That's something that many folks on here do not know the meaning of. Logic over emotion people. Losing Green is NOT a reflection on this staff's ability to recruit. If you think it is, please educate yourself on EVERY aspect of football and coaching before posting ever again, thanks.

    Coach85

  • The part I was refering to was, "Be patient guys, the top 5 classes are coming". Nobody knows how CBJ will do here yet. Its not fair to bash people for questioning him, while preaching patience, and then saying he is the answer to our problems in the next breath. Ive seen some encouraging signs, and Ive seen some things that worry me too. I choose to stay objective this time around. I take UT football far too seriously to get burned again.

    BigOrangeBeer ●

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    "Count it down with me. Five, four, three, two, one. The national champion is clad in Big Orange!"

    kyvolunteer ●

  • acetylcholine said...

    I think he said CBJ was going to WORK like heck to get 5* recruits and top 5 classes. That doesn't qualify as a definative claim IMO. I translate it as this: CBJ is a proven winner, albeit it the Big East, but he does know how to win. He has definitely worked very hard in the short time he has been here. Once we start winning some games, the hard work will pay off. It's that simple. I will tell you this, if we are impatient this drought will never end. Bringing up Dooley does nothing now. That has nothing to do with anything as far as being patient with CBJ now. It's s new start. So, we are all along for this ride now, you can't get off of it. I had a college football coach that has nothing to do with UT tell me today that CBJ is the real deal and would be successful. This is someone I trust. So, there is where my faith lies. CBJ will fix this. Go Vols!

    To quote the OP:

    " Be patient guys, the top 5 classes are coming. Like other posters have said in other threads, Butch is developing a reputation of being a relentless, intense, detail-oriented recruiting madman. "

    That sounds like a definitive statement to me.

    GoVols2011

  • GoVols2011 said...

    To quote the OP:

    " Be patient guys, the top 5 classes are coming. Like other posters have said in other threads, Butch is developing a reputation of being a relentless, intense, detail-oriented recruiting madman. "

    That sounds like a definitive statement to me.

    I said he is developing a reputation as a great recruiter, not that he definitely is. And the top 5 classes are coming because I believe, based off of the effort he's given so far, that given a full year in 2014 and the amount of legacies we have in that class, that we can have an elite class then. It'll take work and wins, yes, but I believe he can do it.

    signature image signature image signature image

    "What did he do? All he did was score!" - John Ward

    Fear_Smokey ●

  • GoVols2011 said...

    Not going to get into an argument but 95% of the posters on this board and fans of UT were in favor of giving Dooley more time up till Mizzou and Vandy game of this year. That is the definition of accepting mediocrity and endorsing more of it. Now we are rinsing and repeating.

    Bottom line after 3 years, he didn't get the job done and he was fired. That's not accepting "mediocraty".

    wataugavol ●

  • GoVols2011 said...

    Defeatist attitude and the willingness to accept mediocrity on and off the field has led us to where we are today. Too many people were willing to give Dooley the benefit of the doubt and now you are just advocating more of the same. How about this let him show us something before we stop questioning him?

    Both Dooley and Kiffin did more on the recruiting trail when hired than Jones has so far and there is no denying it.

    Let's break 'em down and see what we're talking about here.
    "How about this let him show us something before we stop questioning him?"
    Maybe you meant.....let him show us something before we START questioning him? That probably would work better.

    "Both Dooley and Kiffin did more on the recruiting trail when hired than Jones has so far and there is no denying it."
    Kiffin came in after Fulmer, of course, with some winning seasons still in recent memory. he had a little buzz from coaching in the league, I'll give him that. His braggadocio helped him in recruiting, probably. But WHO did he bring in, some good players, sure. But also some thugs.
    Dooley came in right after and, to his credit, did a good job landing some quality players in his first class. Especially given the short time frame he had to work with.
    But don't you think that Dooley's tenure here has affected Jones' ability to bring in some recruits? I mean, he went, what.....4-19 in the SEC. Plus I guess I don't see how you slam Dooley in the first paragraph then praise him when trying to compare him to Jones.
    We all should give someone the benefit of the doubt until we see what they can do. Let CBJ put a product on the field and then see where we stand. I just have a good feeling about him, the way he handles himself compared to Dooley. It just "feels" different to me.

    This post was edited by Bleedz_Orange on 1/27/2013 at 2:01 PM

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    Bleedz_Orange

  • Fear_Smokey said...

    I said he is developing a reputation as a great recruiter, not that he definitely is. And the top 5 classes are coming because I believe, based off of the effort he's given so far, that given a full year in 2014 and the amount of legacies we have in that class, that we can have an elite class then. It'll take work and wins, yes, but I believe he can do it.

    In other words all you have is a feeling that Jones can bring in Top 5 classes, so we should be patient because you have a feeling based on 2 months on the job, but we aren't allowed to question him?

    Too funny

    GoVols2011

  • wataugavol said...

    Bottom line after 3 years, he didn't get the job done and he was fired. That's not accepting "mediocraty".

    Thank you, watauga. We gave Derek Dooley 3 years and a fair shot at bringing our program back, and he couldn't do it. It wasn't "accepting mediocrity" it was responding to a body of results after a fair test. To declare Butch Jones a failure before he's even coached his first game or completed his first recruiting class is completely, utterly assanine.

    signature image signature image signature image

    "What did he do? All he did was score!" - John Ward

    Fear_Smokey ●

  • wataugavol said...

    Bottom line after 3 years, he didn't get the job done and he was fired. That's not accepting "mediocraty".

    Bottom line is the fans accepted it Dave Hart didn't.

    GoVols2011

  • GoVols2011 said...

    In other words all you have is a feeling that Jones can bring in Top 5 classes, so we should be patient because you have a feeling based on 2 months on the job, but we aren't allowed to question him?

    Too funny

    I'm not saying that you're not allowed to question him, I'm saying that you shouldn't keep comparing him to Dooley and calling him a failure because he hasn't landed a five star yet.

    signature image signature image signature image

    "What did he do? All he did was score!" - John Ward

    Fear_Smokey ●

  • GoVols2011 said...

    In other words all you have is a feeling that Jones can bring in Top 5 classes, so we should be patient because you have a feeling based on 2 months on the job, but we aren't allowed to question him?

    Too funny

    What are we to question after 60 days on the job? Hesitant to give glory and credit, yes.... Skeptical, sure.... But to question? Not sure about that....

    schlepper79

  • Fear_Smokey said...

    Thank you, watauga. We gave Derek Dooley 3 years and a fair shot at bringing our program back, and he couldn't do it. It wasn't "accepting mediocrity" it was responding to a body of results after a fair test. To declare Butch Jones a failure before he's even coached his first game or completed his first recruiting class is completely, utterly assanine.

    I havent seen anybody declare him a failure, and I certainly dont think he has done anything to show he is a failure. However, its not fair to say be patient before criticizing, while singing his praises before he has done anything either. I hope he can get it turned around, he is just gonna have to prove it to me first this time around.

    BigOrangeBeer ●

  • schlepper79 said...

    What are we to question after 60 days on the job? Hesitant to give glory and credit, yes.... Skeptical, sure.... But to question? Not sure about that....

    I think it is perfectly reasonable to question the offer of a scholarship to a volleyball player who has played 1 year of football since his freshman year in HS who has only 2 years to play 2 and has only 1 other Division 1 offer. This is my point. People on this board act like you are crazy if you don't fall in awe at the feet of the coaches. OP started this thread by calling out people for questioning the job Jones has done so far and that is laughable. Legitimate questions are legitimate questions

    GoVols2011

  • GoVols2011 said...

    I think it is perfectly reasonable to question the offer of a scholarship to a volleyball player who has played 1 year of football since his freshman year in HS who has only 2 years to play 2 and has only 1 other Division 1 offer. This is my point. People on this board act like you are crazy if you don't fall in awe at the feet of the coaches. OP started this thread by calling out people for questioning the job Jones has done so far and that is laughable. Legitimate questions are legitimate questions

    2011, I'm gonna put it this way: you choose to be negative and almost cynical about the situation, and I choose to be positive and hopeful. Is either one of us right? I'd like to think I am, but time will tell. I'll say this: you would do a lot better to be a bit more optimistic, it's better for your health. It really is.

    signature image signature image signature image

    "What did he do? All he did was score!" - John Ward

    Fear_Smokey ●

  • GoVols2011 said...

    I think it is perfectly reasonable to question the offer of a scholarship to a volleyball player who has played 1 year of football since his freshman year in HS who has only 2 years to play 2 and has only 1 other Division 1 offer. This is my point. People on this board act like you are crazy if you don't fall in awe at the feet of the coaches. OP started this thread by calling out people for questioning the job Jones has done so far and that is laughable. Legitimate questions are legitimate questions

    I would say yes, I am skeptical of Jones offering that scholly to Quinn, but I am not ready to question him, yet. And if that's the only example to "quesiton", then I think that is not fair. However, the point you make about those falling in awe at the coaches feet... It's THOSE people that I would question, not the coaches! lol

    schlepper79

  • Well said my brother Vol! +1

    DaddyHink ●

  • schlepper79 said...

    I would say yes, I am skeptical of Jones offering that scholly to Quinn, but I am not ready to question him, yet. And if that's the only example to "quesiton", then I think that is not fair. However, the point you make about those falling in awe at the coaches feet... It's THOSE people that I would question, not the coaches! lol

    In the end we all hope he is mucho successful some are just easier sold than others.

    GoVols2011

  • GoVols2011 said...

    In the end we all hope he is mucho successful some are just easier sold than others.

    I can take that! GBO!!

    schlepper79

  • Good post, and patience is a virtue (and upvoted you for it), but rightly or wrongly, as most people define "mediocrity," the fanbase has been suffering since the last decent year we had w/Ainge in '07. Most "ordinary" fans, which isn't most on this forum, aren't gonna give CBJ as much time w/o complaining, because they've waited half a decade, so far, and counting, not to suck, and they want to win and win now.

    It's not fair to Butch, but it is what it is. IMO, "just wait 'til next year," ought to really be "just wait until the 2014 class become sophomores in 2015." Only then do we have a legit. shot at being truly good. CBJ won't be fired before then, but there's nothing we can do until then to stop the rank and file from constantly complaining and clamoring for us to be good immediately.

    This post was edited by doberVol on 1/27/2013 at 1:40 PM

    "Bravely taking to his feet, he beat a very brave retreat." Sir Robin's Minstrels.

    doberVol

  • doberVol said...

    Good post, and patience is a virtue (and upvoted you for it), but rightly or wrongly, as most people define "mediocrity," the fanbase has been suffering since the last decent year we had w/Ainge in '07. Most "ordinary" fans, which isn't most on this forum, aren't gonna give CBJ as much time w/o complaining, because they've waited half a decade, so far, and counting, not to suck, and they want to win and win now.

    It's not fair to Butch, but it is what it is. IMO, "just wait 'til next year," ought to really be "just wait until the 2014 class become sophomores in 2015." Only then do we have a legit. shot at being truly good. CBJ won't be fired before then, but there's nothing we can do until then to stop the rank and file from constantly complaining and clamoring for us to be good immediately.

    I would argue that with a little bit of luck, we can finish with a decent record this year. Our O-line is a huge advantage, and our D has better personel than Wilcox's last year. I am not going to ever mention last years D ever again...

    BigOrangeBeer ●

  • BigOrangeBeer said...

    I would argue that with a little bit of luck, we can finish with a decent record this year. Our O-line is a huge advantage, and our D has better personel than Wilcox's last year. I am not going to ever mention last years D ever again...

    Oh, I agree completely. I just don't think "decent" is gonna satisfy the talk show callers, or the VN, VQ or Scout board-type posters. They'll still be b#$%^ing about not how long it's been since we've won the SECC or at least the division.

    "Bravely taking to his feet, he beat a very brave retreat." Sir Robin's Minstrels.

    doberVol

  • Basically if you summarize and say UT is not an attractive place for coaches or recruits in 2-3 sentences you get down voted. But if you write several paragraphs with the same message you're a genius.

    signature image

    GBO

    TNjrod ●

  • GoVols2011 said...

    In other words all you have is a feeling that Jones can bring in Top 5 classes, so we should be patient because you have a feeling based on 2 months on the job, but we aren't allowed to question him?

    Too funny

    Yeah, it's "too funny" you are on a Vols fan site and as you say "2 months on the job" and you're already questioning?? Sounds like you already have your mind made up and won't wait on the facts to come to see how that plays out. What about some optimism here, brother?? Pessimism you've got down pat.

    signature image signature image signature image

    Bleedz_Orange

  • Fear_Smokey said...

    Ok, for those of you who are going full red over not getting Green, (I know there's not many of you here, but still) and those of you who think that Tennessee should be getting top 5 classes just by being Tennessee; you guys are delusional.

    Look, the recruits in this year's class were 3 years old in 1998. These kids don't know about the 90s, and they don't know about our tradition. All they know is the program that's been in shambles since Fulmer left, a program that's gotten virtually no national attention in 5 years. The quote from that 2014 CB says it all: "I personally don't know anything about Tennessee." Be real guys: this is a program that has endured four losing seasons in five years, and that has had four coaches since December of 2008. It is completely unreasonable to expect top-5 recruiting in our situation; even if we are Tennessee. We all need to realize that the days of 5* recruits lining up and banging on our door are over. We are not the Tennessee of old. Butch is gonna have to win some games and work like heck to get 5* guys and top 5 classes. It's not gonna happen like magic. It pains me to say, but none of the recruits nowadays care about the power T or the checkerboard end zones; they care about being part of a winning program, and we're not a winning program right now. Until we start winning some games, we're gonna have to deal with recruiting classes that are ranked in the 20s, that's just the way it is guys.

    With that said: anyone who claims that Butch has failed on the recruiting trail either isn't paying attention, is a troll, or is just straight up stupid. The effort that he and his staff are putting in is nothing short of incredible. Bellamy, Lawson, Bell, Levenberry, Foreman, Jenkins, Ford and Sutton are all examples of recruits that were either not interested in Tennessee at all or were very slightly interested before Jones arrived, but now are either committed or are heavily considering us due to Jones' efforts. Not to mention the fact that he kept us in serious contention for the #1 running back in the country despite the coaching change, and that he could land us the best receiver in North Carolina. Also, he has gotten off to a wonderful start to 2014 by getting Wharton's commitment and getting hot on the trails of guys like Creamer, Hurd, Chubb, Paulk, etc.

    My message in this post is this: it could be that the 2013 class ends up a wash and we miss out on a lot of our top targets; but that is absolutely NOT to be taken as an indictment of Jones' recruiting ability. Be patient guys, the top 5 classes are coming. Like other posters have said in other threads, Butch is developing a reputation of being a relentless, intense, detail-oriented recruiting madman. So what we need to do is be patient and stop throwing 11-year old hissy fit meltdowns every time a big prospect picks somewhere over UT.

    I choose to hope and believe. Patience is a virtue my friends.

    Go Vols

    Great post! I couldn't agree more.

    McVolFam

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