The CheckerBoard

i enjoyed this thread as well..just got on and read through the posts..i've said this in other threads, the offensive outlook next year is worrisome to me..New scheme, new coaches and new qb and WR's..Do we have talent? sure, but there is simply no way to replace what Bray, CP, Hunter, Riveira and Z Rogers meant to this offense. IMHO, people are going to look back at that offense next year and realize how underappreciated it was. You might not like Bray's mental wherewithal, but dude could flat out sling it.. He made throws that others just cant, i dont care how smart or mature they are. His numbers were not just good, but historically good...i think some people are overlooking just how good he was..

As for the receivers, yes, on paper they have measureables..But there's a reason Bowles and Croom didnt see the field last year. We really have no idea what their productivity level will be. So trying to project out our offensive output based on completely unproven players is scary to me..

The offensive line will be our rock, for sure..but boy have we lost a ton of skill and production..i think, being objective, we are in for a ton of growing pains on offense..perhaps more so than on D..

CP wasn't a proven guy either... We all thought Hunter was proven, and perhaps he was, but his production was much lower than what he was capable of. We had great top shelf talent last year that translated to good, not great, production. Now our top end talent isn't quite as good but we have much more talent spread throughout our WR corps.

3 yr players - Dallas, Carter
2 yr players - Howard, Blanc, Bowles, Croom
1st yr players - Harris, North, Jenkins, Smith

I also think that Downs will also prove to be our main guy at TE. Any combination of Downs, Dallas, Carter, Bowles, Howard, Croom, Blanc, North, etc would be one of the best WR corps in the league (at least on paper).

It may be 20 years or more before we see another CP. I'm 26, and he's the most electric WR I've seen in orange.

Unproven sure, but CP played over Croom and Bowles for a reason, he was special. We can't assume that because somebody is unproven, they will match the production of the most exciting player to watch in the past few years.

the fact that there are "busts" coming out of JUCO does not mean that they are not more established and experienced than HS seniors. I dont think this is really an arguable point. CP was older, had played at a higher level in JUCO than any HS senior, ergo he was "more established". My overall point, however, was that we had exceptional talent at the wideout position last year, and it would be overly optimistic to expect the same production from the upcoming group of receivers who will take the field next year with no history of production behind them. Im certainly not counting on it. Add in a new qb throwing the ball to them, and even the most orange tinged glasses would make you see some growing pains next year..

You missed my point. CP also had "no history of production". You don't get to sidestep that by saying he was a highly rated Juco... as I pointed out, Kenny O'Neil was as well. I don't necessarily see us having a 1,000 yd receiver next year. But the fact is that this year we have a much deeper group of WRs than we did last year. I don't think it's unreasonable to think we could have around 4 WR top 2,000 yds between them. We're not going to just have 2 main targets. We're going to have 4 to 5 that get a pretty even distribution of catches IMO. It will be a very different play distribution scenario.

Also, I think people may be confusing CP's production as a WR with the impact he had all over the field (RB, KR, etc.)

Very true. Any passing game we have will come from the success of the running game.

Sometimes this leads to true open competition and that will be one thing to watch and IMO be great for this team at every position. New staff and major turnover at the skill positions will have every WR,TE,QB& RB excited. The other thing we have is an established OL (the best in CFB) with leaders to truly lead the offensive attack on & off the field.

Folks I think emerge: Crooms- great physical size and speed! Browles- good size with speed and open-field skills. Petermen- not.because CBJ recruited him, he just impresses me and opened alot of eyes in spring last year. Pig- playmaker. I think Lane and Neil improve and if Jabo is healthy may push them late in year (loved his jr video and has speed for SEC).

We have the talent and the best OL in CFB! IMO

It's a valid concern, no doubt about that.

I like your enthusiasm 28, but I, to a point, disagree. I think it depends on how we define the term "better." Do we mean "better" as in production; or do we mean "better" as in schematic discipline and consistency?

To the former, I don't think our offense is going to produce near like it did in 2012. As inconsistent as he was, Tyler Bray made some throws that only a few college QBs can make; he also threw for well over 3,000 yards and 34 TDs (his 2012 season is second to only Peyton Manning in the record books). He was more accurate than people gave him credit for and he also had a knack for getting the ball out of his hands quickly. I think his sheer arm talent is irreplaceable. Also, there is no way to replace Justin Hunter and Cordarrelle Patterson talent wise. None. You're talking about possibly the two most athletically gifted receivers to ever play at Tennessee. While Hunter did drop some passes, his speed and quickness were virtually uncoverable, and he had a knack for making spectacular catches in the end zone. Patterson I think is even superior to Hunter as far as athleticism. If he had been a better route runner, he would have had a 1,000 yard season receiving. Not to mention, we also lost Mychal Rivera and Zach Rogers.

As for the latter, I think there is merit to that argument. Bray was a headcase. That much was obvious. Hunter this season reminded me of what 1999 Jamal Lewis looked like; a player who knew he was NFL bound after the season and didn't play as hard as he could in order to save his body for the pros. Watch film of this past season and you'll see that Hunter barely ever took a pass in the middle of the field; most of his catches were on the sideline. Patterson simply wasn't a solid route-runner. The things that our offense has going for it are these:

1) We have four quarterbacks capable of running Butch's offense; while it could be argued that only Bray fit Chaney's air-raid system with the arm he had
2) We have the best O-line in the SEC and maybe in the entire nation
3) We have signed the #1 wide receiver class two years straight
4) Our running game will feature two capable backs (Neal and Lane) who will certainly make for a formidable 1-2 punch

From everything I read in the off-season, it seemed like Peterman and Worley were already ahead of Tyler Bray in the intelligence and maturity department, even with Bray as the starter. Consequently, while none of the QBs on our roster now have the pure arm talent Bray had, they all are extremely intelligent, very mature, overall and seem to be a bit farther along in the process of becoming a true quarterback than Bray was. I also think that Butch Jones' offense is more conducive to success than Chaney's was. Chaney hated running the football; and as a result, we became very one-dimensional, leading to Bray interceptions and stalled drives. Butch seems to favor running the ball (something you MUST be able to do in the SEC) to set up the pass. I prefer Butch's system to Chaney's, in part because it is a much better fit for the players we have on that side of the ball, quarterbacks especially. Also, our receiver depth in 2013 bodes to be better than it was last season, Behind our tandem of Hunter, Patterson, and Zach Rogers, we had barely any effective players. (Pig had his moments, but seldom did they ever come) This group of receivers, albeit not as talented as the 2012 group, will most likely be deeper. The parity will allow us to substitute more often during the game, allowing for fresher bodies to be available which will in turn wear defenses down...quickly. With that said, there are some things going against this offense as well:

1) We are inheriting an offense devoid of it's four most productive receivers and its starting QB.
2) We are instituting a brand new system, with brand new schemes, brand new routes and brand new terminology.
3) Outside of Pig, none of our receivers have played a down of college football; most of them are still quite raw at this point
4) Despite what I've said about Bray and the others, breaking in a new quarterback will not be easy in the least

So, my point is this: I do think that our offense will be more consistent, but I do not think that it will be near as good as 2012 in terms of production. CAN the 2013 offense be good Absolutely. We have a good deal of talent on our hands. But WILL it? I don't know yet. I think we would all be well served to dial down our expectations a bit; there's no way we can demand that a brand-new quarterback throwing to brand new receivers in a brand new scheme match the numbers of what was statistically the greatest Tennessee offense of all-time. Let's have hope, but let's also be reasonable too.

+1 for the post 28, I like your optimism.

I don't necessarily buy an "inevitable loss in pass offense". Bray had 3,612 yds last year. He attempted 451 passes. What if this year we amass 2,500-3,000 yds but only attempt 250-300 passes? We would get less yards from our passing game but it would be much more effective, by virtue of being more efficient, than last year. That is just a hypothetical to show that we might not have a net loss. It is also much more likely that our passing game will be much more efficient because we should have a solid running game that allows us to pass when we choose to instead of out of necessity.

It can't get any worse, that's for sure.

Hopefully, we can go back to the days where we won't need 12 or 13 on defense.