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volfanrbf said...
You know we will not win a NC with Dooley at coach, please tell me what the Powerball number will be Saturday. We all want to be back in contention for SEC Championships and a NC but as other have noted you have to have some patience. When at Mich St, Saban's first four years were 6-5-1. 6-6, 7-5, & 6-6 before he went 9-2 then left for LSU. Finally in the fourth year, he won a game he wasn't supposed to by upsetting OSU but still went 6-6 so Dooley seems to be following a similar path. Now, don't get me wrong in thinking I am saying he will end up like Saban but I don't think you KNOW how he will pan out here or wherever else he goes.
RockytopATL ●
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orangetex
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UTBULL
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orangetex said...
I was there in 77 as well when Johnny Came Marching Home as well. BIG DIFFERENCE is that Majors had just rebuilt Pitt and won a National Championship at Pitt. He was a bally-hoed UT player and proven coach. Dooley, he came from La Tech and a losing record with no proven track record.
I really wanted CDD to succeed and I'll root as fervently as possible for the Vols Saturday and every Saturday thereafter. However, I do not think he is guy to finish the turn-around. Nothing in his past is indicative that he will be successful in this endeavor. Just hope. I am done "hoping". I want a proven coach like Majors was to lead the Vols!!!!!
GBO!!!!
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"Count it down with me. Five, four, three, two, one. The national champion is clad in Big Orange!"
kyvolunteer
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tnbear66 said...
You make Rocky's point for him. You've seen 21/2 years of rebuilding and that's enough for you to decide that he will never recruit well enough to win a National Championship. What do you think will happen to recruiting if he wins out or he goes 9-3 next year or the year after. You act as if it is a static endeavor which is Rocky's point about some on this board...give it to me now. I am not angry with you or any of the other guys on here who lack patience. I'm worried.
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UTvol4life said...
My point exactly. You have to have a coach that can occasionally out-coach someone to compensate. Even with equal talent is CDD going to get it done against Richt, Spurrier, Mullen, Miles, Muschamp, Saban,etc.? What has he done this far to make us believe that?
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by DCVolunteer on 10/25/2012 at 9:57 PM
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tnbear66 said...
One thing you forgot to mention is Majors being able to have 120+ players at Pitt. When he was forced to have only 85 it took him 7 years to be truly successful. You said he was a successful coach and that only proves the point. A successful coach took 7 years to complete the rebuild.
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DCVolunteer said...
tnbear, in all seriousness if Dooley loses Saturday, what have you seen from him as a coach that would lead you to believe that he can beat Oregon, Bama, FL, GA, or USCe next year or the 5 or 6 top 20 teams on the schedule in 2014? UT's recruiting has dipped a little every year he's been here, yet our comp keeps raising their level of recruiting, including teams like MS State and Vandy. Teams that we used to use to get experience for our third string. If Dooley loses Saturday, you are relying upon a coach who has yet to show he can outcoach the big boys with less talent or even equal or better talent in some cases (see KY and MS State), to get a breakthrough victory against one of the big boys in the next two years, considering that the longer he fails to beat them, the wider the talent gap becomes, the less talent he will have to work with to pull an upset.
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tnbear66
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RockytopATL said...
Recruiting goes hand in hand with your record.
I would challenge anyone to find a coach who has recuited better than Dooley with a losing record. If he can get it together and win 7 this year, it stands to reason he'll close a stronger class. That was the way it was with Majors -- as he began to build the reputation of winning, his recruiting got better.
Auburn ruined the model for championships. Thanks to them, everyone now seems to think they happen overnight. Without Cam Newton, it takes time to build champions.
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NeutronVOL said...
Speaking of Auburn, they're 1-6 and on their way to 3-9. AU has had better recruiting classes than UT the last few years so there's your answer to your riddle. Chizick (sp?) has won an SEC championship, a National Championship but who on this board would rather have him than Dooley? Not me, not by a long shot.
1 Corinthians 16:13 Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
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NeutronVOL said...
Speaking of Auburn, they're 1-6 and on their way to 3-9. AU has had better recruiting classes than UT the last few years so there's your answer to your riddle. Chizick (sp?) has won an SEC championship, a National Championship but who on this board would rather have him than Dooley? Not me, not by a long shot.
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tnbear66 said...
DC, I feel your passion and I have my moments when I may feel some of the same things you do. However, I had one source at UT who had been there for many years and the things that were wrong with that program were monumental and ran deeper than anyone could imagine. To say the culture was dysfunctional is an understatement and if you don't think things like that affect coaches and players alike then I have no explanation that will help you. I loved Phil and have and still do have a great deal of respect for him in many ways but his complacency ran deeper than anyone could imagine. Then you throw Kiffin in the mix and we were not much better than a start up program with a losing attitude when Dooley got here. I don't know if Dooley will ultimately take us where we want to go but I know this was and will remain a 5 year minimum rebuild. The bottom line is there was no real heart left in this program and that's why we don't finish games like we used to and what you see the coaches trying to change. Wes's Palermo interview has a very telling story about when he was at Wisconsin and I think it really relates to where we are now.
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DCVolunteer said...
I think you and I may agree on the situation he walked into. I will also agree he's done alot to fix the problems, but moving forward the question really relates to whether there is a belief that Dooley can finish the job given two more years when he hasn't been able to get a breakthrough victory and each year moving forward the talent gap grows leaving him less talent to get that breakthrough victory.
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RockytopATL said...
I'm one of the last Dooley defenders on this board, and that is because I witnessed firsthand the last rebuilding at Tennessee back when Majors replaced Battle, and I know how tough a job it is. Frankly, it's a lot tougher now than it was in the '70s because we have three to five Top Ten teams in the SEC now, compared to one and maybe two back then. Our schedule not being Georgia's, we get to play all the best teams every year. It's tough as it gets in college football.
But to my main point: I honestly believe that to win in the SEC, you have to have a great senior class. Tennessee has never had a championship team, or even a near-championship team, that hasn't had a top-notch senior class. That's where you get your experience, your toughness, even your depth. Derek Dooley has never had a decent senior class. It has been well documented how crappy Fulmer's last recruiting class was, and how Kiffin's only recruiting class is AWOL, quit, transferred or thrown off the team.
What is passing for Dooley's senior class is a tiny group -- Teague, Waggner, Lathers, Bart, Thomas, Gooch, Zach Rogers, Bohannon and Fowlkes. That's it. They are only the senior contributors and there are only a couple of standouts in the bunch.
Dooley's top leaders are, for the most part, his juniors, the guys Kiffin recruited and he managed to hold onto in the 11th hour. I challenge any of you to find a "well coached team" that doesn't make a lot of mental errors, with as few senior contributors. Good teams have seniors. Tennessee doesn't have seniors.
I don't think his abilities as a coach can truly be judged until he at least has a decent sized senior class -- 20 or more guys -- out there. It's not an excuse -- it's a fact.
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cpavol
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RockytopATL said...
I'm one of the last Dooley defenders on this board, and that is because I witnessed firsthand the last rebuilding at Tennessee back when Majors replaced Battle, and I know how tough a job it is. Frankly, it's a lot tougher now than it was in the '70s because we have three to five Top Ten teams in the SEC now, compared to one and maybe two back then. Our schedule not being Georgia's, we get to play all the best teams every year. It's tough as it gets in college football.
But to my main point: I honestly believe that to win in the SEC, you have to have a great senior class. Tennessee has never had a championship team, or even a near-championship team, that hasn't had a top-notch senior class. That's where you get your experience, your toughness, even your depth. Derek Dooley has never had a decent senior class. It has been well documented how crappy Fulmer's last recruiting class was, and how Kiffin's only recruiting class is AWOL, quit, transferred or thrown off the team.
What is passing for Dooley's senior class is a tiny group -- Teague, Waggner, Lathers, Bart, Thomas, Gooch, Zach Rogers, Bohannon and Fowlkes. That's it. They are only the senior contributors and there are only a couple of standouts in the bunch.
Dooley's top leaders are, for the most part, his juniors, the guys Kiffin recruited and he managed to hold onto in the 11th hour. I challenge any of you to find a "well coached team" that doesn't make a lot of mental errors, with as few senior contributors. Good teams have seniors. Tennessee doesn't have seniors.
I don't think his abilities as a coach can truly be judged until he at least has a decent sized senior class -- 20 or more guys -- out there. It's not an excuse -- it's a fact.
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RockytopATL said...
I'm one of the last Dooley defenders on this board, and that is because I witnessed firsthand the last rebuilding at Tennessee back when Majors replaced Battle, and I know how tough a job it is. Frankly, it's a lot tougher now than it was in the '70s because we have three to five Top Ten teams in the SEC now, compared to one and maybe two back then. Our schedule not being Georgia's, we get to play all the best teams every year. It's tough as it gets in college football.
But to my main point: I honestly believe that to win in the SEC, you have to have a great senior class. Tennessee has never had a championship team, or even a near-championship team, that hasn't had a top-notch senior class. That's where you get your experience, your toughness, even your depth. Derek Dooley has never had a decent senior class. It has been well documented how crappy Fulmer's last recruiting class was, and how Kiffin's only recruiting class is AWOL, quit, transferred or thrown off the team.
What is passing for Dooley's senior class is a tiny group -- Teague, Waggner, Lathers, Bart, Thomas, Gooch, Zach Rogers, Bohannon and Fowlkes. That's it. They are only the senior contributors and there are only a couple of standouts in the bunch.
Dooley's top leaders are, for the most part, his juniors, the guys Kiffin recruited and he managed to hold onto in the 11th hour. I challenge any of you to find a "well coached team" that doesn't make a lot of mental errors, with as few senior contributors. Good teams have seniors. Tennessee doesn't have seniors.
I don't think his abilities as a coach can truly be judged until he at least has a decent sized senior class -- 20 or more guys -- out there. It's not an excuse -- it's a fact.
You're not alone. I was seven years old in 77, but already old enough to love the Vols. The coaching world has changed since then, I know. Now, its large money and high expectations. Ultimately, Dave Hart's philosophy will soon reveal itself and we will learn which side of this argument he is on. Until then, I can't agree more with tnbear that this thread has been extremely civil with great arguments from most everyone. I hope CDD is given the opportunity to finish the season and is judged on his last 4 games rather than the fours losses and SCar game. If we can win November and win in a bowl game, it would greatly improve the confidence of this team, give us more practice and exposure, and improve the recruiting class. That's re-building the program one brick at a time, and continuing to improve on a steady foundation.
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Once Again, I Defend Dooley