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Baugamania
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GhostofNeyland said...
The fact of the matter is many head coaches turned down the job before Dooley took it.
There were feelers put out for other defensive coordinators even if we only offered Sal. (Who I think is a good one...)
We lost to Kentucky.
Dooley botched the DeAnthony Arnett thing.
We lost six assistant coaches.
We're coming off two consecutive losing records.
I know we all love Tennessee, but it's hard to blame a recruit for not wanting to play for us right now. I hate that Otha Peters and Dalton Santos are liars, but the truth hurts sometimes, guys. Above is the truth.
The turnaround isn't close.
let's break down all your negative
shall we.
1st: who cares that coaches turned down the job, that was 2 years ago.
2nd: How is this a sign of problems with our program. We had a great hire.
3rd: If you're going to analyze last year, then look at the first 3 games, and the beginning of the florida game. With a healthy bray and hunter we led the nation in 3rd down conversions, and our offense was the best in the SEC. We destroyed Cincinnati, who ended up beating Vanderbilt in their bowl game. That just shows how much different the team that finished the season was from the team that started.
4th: Yeah we lost to kentucky and it sucked. Dooley's old staff didn't get along and it spread to the field by the end of the year. which leads me to the 5th point.
5th: of course we had a ton of coaching turnover, They didn't gel as coaches and that turmoil only got worse as the season went on. Every hire has been an upgrade in coaching ability, recruiting, and for chemistry within the staff.
6th: 2 seasons ago we only had a losing season because of a terrible fiasco at the end of the north carolina game. Last season if we have Bray and especially hunter we win at least 3 more games.
Game, set, match. I WIN. Tennessee is on the upward path!
This post was edited by nrw072988 on 1/31/2012 at 6:12 PM
nrw072988
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nrw072988 said...
let's break all your negative
shall we.
1st: who cares that coaches turned down the job, that was 2 years ago.
2nd: How is this a sign of problems with our program. We had a great hire.
3rd: If you're going to analyze last year, then look at the first 3 games, and the beginning of the florida game. With a healthy bray and hunter we led the nation in 3rd down conversions, and our offense was the best in the SEC. We destroyed Cincinnati, who ended up beating Vanderbilt in their bowl game. That just shows how much different the team that finished the season was from the team that started.
4th: Yeah we lost to kentucky and it sucked. Dooley's old staff didn't get along and it spread to the field by the end of the year. which leads me to the 5th point.
5th: of course we had a ton of coaching turnover, They didn't gel as coaches and that turmoil only got worse as the season went on. Every hire has been an upgrade in coaching ability, recruiting, and for chemistry within the staff.
6th: 2 seasons ago we only had a losing season because of a terrible fiasco at the end of the north carolina game. Last season if we have Bray and especially hunter we win at least 3 more games.
Thank you nrw . . . for a moment I thought I had hit the tab for TOS by mistake!
"Old School"! A strong defense wins championships!
volviking
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utkdominic said...
I understand your frustration GhostoNeyland. The past few years' events have been difficult for every Volunteer fan, however merely pointing out the downfalls does little but show that you have noted/observed the same shortcoming all of Volnation has also seen. Said differently, saying that the program is "unstable" without providing a solution (and a realistic means of employing that solution) is, well, counter-productive. Constructive criticism is good, IF it is constructive. Unfortunately, we can do nothing about the detrimental effect of (Lame) Kiffin, the lost to KY, the losing seasons, or Santos and Peters choosing not to play on RockyTop. We can however control how we support Tennessee (the program, coaches, current players and new recruits that will sign tomorrow) with our WORDS and actions. Negativity naturally surrounds an "unstable program"----Let’s not add to it....
GhostofNeyland
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nrw072988 said...
let's break down all your negative
shall we.
1st: who cares that coaches turned down the job, that was 2 years ago.
2nd: How is this a sign of problems with our program. We had a great hire.
3rd: If you're going to analyze last year, then look at the first 3 games, and the beginning of the florida game. With a healthy bray and hunter we led the nation in 3rd down conversions, and our offense was the best in the SEC. We destroyed Cincinnati, who ended up beating Vanderbilt in their bowl game. That just shows how much different the team that finished the season was from the team that started.
4th: Yeah we lost to kentucky and it sucked. Dooley's old staff didn't get along and it spread to the field by the end of the year. which leads me to the 5th point.
5th: of course we had a ton of coaching turnover, They didn't gel as coaches and that turmoil only got worse as the season went on. Every hire has been an upgrade in coaching ability, recruiting, and for chemistry within the staff.
6th: 2 seasons ago we only had a losing season because of a terrible fiasco at the end of the north carolina game. Last season if we have Bray and especially hunter we win at least 3 more games.
Game, set, match. I WIN. Tennessee is on the upward path!
GhostofNeyland
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jcochran0724
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GhostofNeyland
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volfanncarolina
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GhostofNeyland said...
If you read my above posts, I pointed out what the facts were as well as the opinions. You can go back and re-read.
The first several sentences of my original post were facts. The opinion was this isn't a quick fix and things like what happened today do not help.
The other fact was that both Otha Peters and Dalton Santos lied. You apparently took offense to that because you're a father or some sort of reason like that. I too am a dad, and you're right, I've told a lie before. I had my [redacted] whipped when I was caught. My kid will have the same fate when he is.
But to hang a coaching staff and a program out to dry by flipping one day away from National Signing Day is a pretty damaging breach of etiquette, a pretty big consequence for those to whom you lied.
Call it what you will. But you shouldn't be confused as to what I said are facts and opinions. I clearly stated that in my posts above.
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doberVol
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bloodrunorange
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GO VOLS! GO HEAT! GO PHINS! GO BRAVES! And for those who know soccer: GO BRAZIL! GO GRÊMIO!
LazhilUT
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doberVol said...
Well, first, I'm stunned that what, IMO, constitutes such a mildly negative post at most on other UT forums has been characterized here as horribly negative. I don't agree w/the OP on everything, but I didn't think anything was inappropriate.
I will say, however, that while I agree w/most of the OP's post, the definition of lie is at issue here (and no, not like Clinton said the definition of "is" was up in the air). To me, the key to any lie, which includes not only the spoken word, is the intent to deceive. Telling someone something that you thought was true but turned out to be wrong is not a lie, because it wasn't done on purpose. To me, the immorality issue here isn't lying, it's reneging on a promise, and the sad state of modern parenting. When I was a kid, I'd have been told not to commit if I wanted the privilege to change my mind, or else, I'd have to stick with my word, without regard to whether or not it was legally binding. Even an 18 year old man's word used to be his bond, because promises affect other people, and there was social cost in the form of ostracism when someone went back on their word. Not keeping your word is selfish, IMO, even if you're an eighteen year old. Think you might change your mind? Fine; don't commit.
Now, too many folks think the world does revolve around them. Coaches: "Sure I'll lie to kids and tell 'em I'll be here forever and bolt at the first better paycheck. They just wanna go to the NFL, anyway, and the fans will cry for my head at the first sign of trouble, so *&^% the players and fans." Players: "The coaches will lie to me about staying there and then take another job. The fans will only love you if you win, and I want to go to the NFL, so *&^% the coaches and fans." Fans: "The coaches want 5 mill. a year while I work for peanuts down at the plant? The players want to go to make millions in the NFL and not give their best effort? And then they want $6 for a bad hotdog at the stadium and a donation just for the privilege of buying tickets? Yeah, it IS win and win now or you're fired (or if you're a player, we'll post that you suck on the internet."
Folks, it didn't use to be like this, but it pretty much is now. And I'd love for it to not be that way anymore.
Ghost, I'll go ahead and ask you to provide your solution. Yes, I understand it will just be your opinion, but these sites are supposed to be for providing opinions.
jcochran0724
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doberVol said...
Well, first, I'm stunned that what, IMO, constitutes such a mildly negative post at most on other UT forums has been characterized here as horribly negative. I don't agree w/the OP on everything, but I didn't think anything was inappropriate.
I will say, however, that while I agree w/most of the OP's post, the definition of lie is at issue here (and no, not like Clinton said the definition of "is" was up in the air). To me, the key to any lie, which includes not only the spoken word, is the intent to deceive. Telling someone something that you thought was true but turned out to be wrong is not a lie, because it wasn't done on purpose. To me, the immorality issue here isn't lying, it's reneging on a promise, and the sad state of modern parenting. When I was a kid, I'd have been told not to commit if I wanted the privilege to change my mind, or else, I'd have to stick with my word, without regard to whether or not it was legally binding. Even an 18 year old man's word used to be his bond, because promises affect other people, and there was social cost in the form of ostracism when someone went back on their word. Not keeping your word is selfish, IMO, even if you're an eighteen year old. Think you might change your mind? Fine; don't commit.
Now, too many folks think the world does revolve around them. Coaches: "Sure I'll lie to kids and tell 'em I'll be here forever and bolt at the first better paycheck. They just wanna go to the NFL, anyway, and the fans will cry for my head at the first sign of trouble, so *&^% the players and fans." Players: "The coaches will lie to me about staying there and then take another job. The fans will only love you if you win, and I want to go to the NFL, so *&^% the coaches and fans." Fans: "The coaches want 5 mill. a year while I work for peanuts down at the plant? The players want to go to make millions in the NFL and not give their best effort? And then they want $6 for a bad hotdog at the stadium and a donation just for the privilege of buying tickets? Yeah, it IS win and win now or you're fired (or if you're a player, we'll post that you suck on the internet."
Folks, it didn't use to be like this, but it pretty much is now. And I'd love for it to not be that way anymore.
Ghost, I'll go ahead and ask you to provide your solution. Yes, I understand it will just be your opinion, but these sites are supposed to be for providing opinions.
GhostofNeyland
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GhostofNeyland said...
Not getting into a pissing contest with my fellow UT brethren. It's not my style. So, I'll respectfully disagree with your assessments, VolBaller33.
Blind faith is a wonderful thing because it allows you to be oblivious to the actual negative cycles that happen in life. I choose to go through life with my eyes open, and if you or anybody else want to be critical with me, that's certainly your right and why you pay your $9.95.
Call me a negative nancy or whatever. I'll call myself a fan. And I'll call you one. Hopefully, we'll be cheering for a winner as soon as next year. But keeping players like Peters and Santos go a long way in us getting "back" and I just feel like not signing a class full of those kids hurts our chances to return sooner rather than later.
Again, not going to bash you. I have pointed out my stance. I'm not disgruntled at all. I'm kind of at a loss at this point.
VolBaller33
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GhostofNeyland
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VolBaller33 said...
Blind faith? Not sure where you derive looking at the state of the program now versus a year ago and seeing us in better shape being " blind faith". We are JUST NOW coming into the period where CDD should BEGIN to be evauluated and people have already been jumping ship for the last 6 months. That's absurd. But watch - we will have a good recruiting class despite all of the issues that have hit us. We will have a good year next year because we are much more talented and deep than we were this year AND we have a better schedule. And then all of the negative nancies will be happy just like me. Difference is I can see the forest through the trees while some people wig out when 2 LBs decommit.
Everything will be fine. It will be that way even faster if you chill out and give our coach a change to rebuild this program.
GhostofNeyland
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GhostofNeyland said...
My kid will know the definition of "commitment." If he is ever fortunate enough to be recruited, he will not commit until he is ready to end the process and know what the definition of commit is.
Thank God you're not saying this is how kids should act. It is, however, HILARIOUS that you think I'm worked up. I've been calm all through this. It's not an overreaction to state facts about the program and draw a conclusion about the program that is unsavory or unpopular with some other fans. It just isn't.
I never said those two kids were compulsive liars. They lied. So, they are what they are. It's an unpopular and somewhat harsh term, I agree. Doesn't make it inaccurate.
jcochran0724
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jcochran0724 said...
I apologize for taking up for kids who aren't perfect. I didn't realize that you were always right and that you had written the manual on raising perfect kids who will never lie or waver on their commitments. Congratulatuons, its very difficult to have it all together the way you do. Thanks for teaching me that kids who switch their commitment to UT are VFL while kids who waver in their commitment to us are liars. I now see the truth. +1 my friend. [Sarcasm]
GhostofNeyland
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GhostofNeyland said...
I think our talent level is better. I do not think we'll ever be better than middle of the row with Dooley, and I'm not satisfied with that.
Yep, after reading this post, you're the rational one. Funny how I'm the one freaking out and you're the one doing all the name-calling.
Also, one last point, I'm sure that my general state of mind has no effect on the program. So, I could technically freak out [if that was, in actuality, what I'm doing. Which I'm not] and it wouldn't change things. So, me "chilling out" probably won't change the way things are going to be.
VolBaller33
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GhostofNeyland said...
Never said it was right either way. But you've made it a habit in this thread of putting words in my mouth. I do celebrate good players deciding they want to be Vols. I just hope they haven't already made and broken a commitment to somebody else. It happens. It sucks. Both ways.
With your last post, I see it's impossible for us to have a civil conversation, and this has been a very counterproductive thread. I'm finished with it. Me being frustrated or disgruntled has nothing to do with my fanhood or the level at which I will pull for the Vols.
Also, there is enough derision among rival fanbases that I certainly don't want to cause any friction with any members of my own fanbase. So, I apologize that the facts -- and my opinions -- offended you where you felt the need to respond 9,000 times. I hope we can put it behind us, respectfully disagree and continue on this board as civil acquaintances who enjoy this site.
Lord knows I'm not a perfect person or a perfect parent. But I certainly will teach my child to honor commitments. Hopefully, he will listen.
jcochran0724
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GhostofNeyland said...
My kid will know the definition of "commitment." If he is ever fortunate enough to be recruited, he will not commit until he is ready to end the process and know what the definition of commit is.
Thank God you're not saying this is how kids should act. It is, however, HILARIOUS that you think I'm worked up. I've been calm all through this. It's not an overreaction to state facts about the program and draw a conclusion about the program that is unsavory or unpopular with some other fans. It just isn't.
I never said those two kids were compulsive liars. They lied. So, they are what they are. It's an unpopular and somewhat harsh term, I agree. Doesn't make it inaccurate.
VolBaller33
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bloodrunorange
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GhostofNeyland said...
The fact of the matter is many head coaches turned down the job before Dooley took it.
There were feelers put out for other defensive coordinators even if we only offered Sal. (Who I think is a good one...)
We lost to Kentucky.
Dooley botched the DeAnthony Arnett thing.
We lost six assistant coaches.
We're coming off two consecutive losing records.
I know we all love Tennessee, but it's hard to blame a recruit for not wanting to play for us right now. I hate that Otha Peters and Dalton Santos are liars, but the truth hurts sometimes, guys. Above is the truth.
The turnaround isn't close.
hdrizzle21
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bloodrunorange said...
I have read many post from GhostofNeyland. He make many valid posts and is as cool as a cucumber. He was not upset when Santos decommitted last week. Most everyone in Vol country understood. Nobody would be upset with Peters for changing his pledge. The way he did it was thoughtless and selfish as well as stupid. Any one would be considered a complete jerk to conduct business the way that Peters did.
I hope Peters enjoys losing to Bama and LSU every year and never placing better than third in the West. Championship? Ha-Ha-Ha! He is a comedian!
Kentucky has a better chance of winning the East than Arkansas does with winning the WestCJBlaze
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This football program is in a difficult spot right now