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USA vs Mexico

  • pcox21 said...

    good point about only eight teams winning it....but what about other than world cup... world championships or other....? just curious.

    did you play soccer as a kid?

    i played one year when i was seven... and hated it. never played again. was too small to play football so played tennis and basketball through high school. when i finally grew and filled out some i found rugby in college. too late to be any good on a major level but continued to play on and off for 15 years. so no im not a politician but i can comprehend that just because a team makes a tournament doesnt mean they are great or even good. if you watch the play like i mentioned our talent and skill level in rugby is where you see the deficiency... or as i call it sucking.

    i guess i fell we suck in soccer...and you dont... thats fine agree to disagree. but at the very least why isnt USA better... when every kid is thrown into as a youngster and as a country they thow tons of money into the sport...they prop up this MLS game with quit a bit of money as well... for what? over the last 30 years ive seen very little return on investment.

    i had several friends that played soccer their whole child hood that were big enough and athletic enough to play other sports...but didnt.... one reason or another too many to go into.

    soccer and rugby are similar in one way... you have to ...usually...play from an early age if you want to good or elite and play on a national stage or internationally.

    i think as a country we are more athletic than others and especially better at hand eye coordinated sports.... i just wonder what it would have been like if the push 30 or 40 years ago to play cricket or rugby would have netted now... i think the results would have produced more.

    yet every kid plays soccer at one time or another...because its easy to throw a bunch of kids on a field and let them run around kicking something. sure lots like me end up hating it and moving on but there is alot of others that stick with it and dont make it. again a couple friends of mine who played soccer their whole live then found rugby after college.... could have easily played internationally had they learned rugby earlier. just a fact that i have seen first hand and wondered about ever since.

    and btw the other post where having moms let their kids play football before rugby.... maybe if pushed rugby as hard as soccer more people would understand the sport more... and how their are less head injuries and severe injuries as a whole in the game of rugby... again i can speak from personal experience that i can count on two hands how many concussions ive seen playing , watching and practices in btween in 15 years of rugby...which is a drop in the bucket no... olympic swimming pool compared to football for one week much less a season.

    The only other major tournaments the USA ever enters is the Confedreations cup. This is the tournament we beat Spain in a few years ago. We qualify for this tournament by winning another the CONCACAF Gold cup. Basically the Confed cup takes winners from the other regions as well as the world cup host and forms a mini tournament. Their have been 5 winners in its history. USA were the runner ups in 2009 losing a heart breaker to Brazil. We have finished 3rd twice.

    The Gold cup which I have previously stated is the tournament of our region. Their have been 3 winners in this tournament. USA, Mexico, and unbelievably Canada who beat Columbia to win it.

    Yes I played Soccer as a kid all the way thru my sophomore year when it became apparent that highschool soccer would take me no where. So my parents signed me up for a travel league but the 2 hour trip to get to my team was just too long a drive to make. So I instead concentrated on basketball.

    As to why were not better when lots of kids play it's because of technical skill. Kids aren't being coached properly at early ages and our youth system is well a train wreck.

    Take a guy like Messi the worlds greatest player perhaps. He started playing for local club Grandoli at age 5. At age 11 he was signed by Barcelona's youth academy. There he started playing for Juvenil B and quickly Juvenil A. After I think like 3 years he was promoted to Barcelona C then eventually B before finally progressing to The Barcelona senior team at age 17.

    Now think about what the average American kid does. Starts playing for AYSO with a bunch of other kids for a coach that probably knows very little about the game. Eventually plays for his school and is one of the few lucky kids and lives close enough to it plays for a travel league where the competition is actually decent and where he may get good coaching. Now when he graduates he is 18 and guess what time for college. so when he gets out of college he is 22 and ready to be a pro. Well Messi has been being groomed by a pro club since he was a eleven. Playing with the senior team since 17 and has 5 senior years under his belt while this American is 22 and hasn't done anything yet.

    We are just beginning to see an American change in this with more MLS teams developing players and setting up youth academies. One of the problems is how big a country we are. We are so spread out It's not plausible for a kid Like I was in lil ol Van Wert Ohio to drive to Columbus everyday for practice so I could get good coaching and a good competition.

    The USSF has finally decided to change the youth system with the hiring of Jurgen Klinsman as coach one of his stipulations was free reign to change the youth system. However this takes time......lots of it.

    As for the MLS being propped up and money pumped in...thats a little confusing to me. The MLS I'm not sure where they are at today as far as profitability I know situations have improved considerably the last few years. Attendance is high. In fact home attendance is better then the MLB and a lot of NBA teams now that is a lot fewer games so that is a bit of a mirage.

    As for rugby and my posts about mom's. I believe they are just scared by what they do not know and do not see. Mom's imo look at football and see their kids have helmets and all these pads and get the illusion of safety. Where as in rugby while injuries occur less often they don't get that illusion.

    I am intrigued by rugby. I have watched the 7 on 7's but don't know a lot about it. Can you shed some light on our qualifying process for the world cup andd how our youth is at a disadvantage vs the rest of the world? wouldn't be shocked if it's similar to soccer.

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    Odie

  • Odie

  • Odie said...

    bump

    real quickly i think the challenges of football vs rugby go much further than the moms letting their kids play...but i do understand what you meant...really in time i think it will be a mute point especially by just getting more exposure, education of the sport and spreading it to the the young pups. which i will cover last as its the our current disadvantage as a country on the world stage.

    qualifying is straight forward and simple from regions and counties within...the matches start 2-3years out from the WC date... next is 2015 in London. of course the 7's you mention is a different game and stategy....like i guess indoor soccer or something.

    the 2016 olympics in brazil will feature the return of 7s rugby ...last played in the 1930s but....hey USA is/ was the defending gold medal team.... there are some world 7s rugby championships i think its done every year.... its such a different game though im not a HUGE fan but its ok. ive always been a fan of 15s or club rugby as its sometime rederrd to. even when i was inshape and fast...i didnt like 7s as much as club.

    in the southern hemisphere there is super league rugby which is kind of a blend of 7s style but played with 14 players i think...again little different and much more running and hitting...most guys are all the same size and speed. it has gained popularity in austrailia and parts of england...not so much here or othr places.

    our disadvantage in the world comes from kids not playing the sport at an early age....plain and simple.

    when i was in NZ for world cup last fall...the craziness and amount of support that small island nation gets and gives its rugby it just unimaginable and almost indescribable. imagine all the soccer fields in the US and make them into rugby pitches...and that would describe how many fields you see in NZ...there are no baseball fields...football ...nothing. every school at every level has several pitches...same with every town...no matter how small. its clearly obvious how a country that only has 4 - 5 million people is so good and dominate on the world stage. the only other country comparable is South Africa...but in craziness and passion only...they obviously have higher population numbers.

    so you can understand anyone from those countries calls us the Sleeping Giant...with 300 million....when we fig it out we will no doubt dominate.

    so...starting young and developing good coaching and a federation to propperly organize and support all this...is the key... Alot of headway has been made since i left college nearly 20years ago...the last five years has been GREAT for highschool and college...where now there are many more schools giving scholarships. if you were curious...UT was good enough and invited to play Div 1 rugby when this new / scholarship and league/travel was set up a couple years ago....but unfortunately they had to decline and drop down to D2 because of the lack of funding and support so far..plus Title IV doesnt help either!!!! But i am still hopeful for them in the future. one of my friends from college and one of the reasons i found out about rugby and played it...is a coach on the UT team...and he hosts kids and parents every year from bigger citties to the north who playd rugby in highschool and want to attend UT even without the scholly.... so again i think its only a matter of time.

    the college game is starting to pick up speed and its dependant on working, developing down to the lower levels. Camps Highschools and summer leagues for kids... at the lower levels 15 and under down to 9 yr olds they are trying to get the kids playing in between seasons...no matter the sport...right now its been summertime. more and more kids getting exposed to it...and hopefully eventually turning off to other sports....or at least by the time they get to highschool lokking for one that offers rugby as a fall or spring sport...

    another good thing is....The state of TN has one of the better settups for highschool comp and playoffs.....especially for its population size.

    winners from leagues in the east-knoxville area. cental-nashville and west- memphis play in a year end tourny for a state cup! the guy i mentioned as one of the coaches at UT was LARGLY responsible for this state cup and solely the creator/organizer of the smokey mountain athletic league SMAC.

    so...anyway...seek it out ...learn it ...support it. Rugby is the best team sport ever created...i truly believe that...having played all different and loved all sports in general...it doesnt even compare. plus the opportunities that have come to me and about because of rugby...weather its friends...travel or even jobs...its been great and that doesnt even touch on the discipline and respect of others.

    alright i think ive said enough

    cheers

    go big orange

    pcox21

  • pcox21 said...

    real quickly i think the challenges of football vs rugby go much further than the moms letting their kids play...but i do understand what you meant...really in time i think it will be a mute point especially by just getting more exposure, education of the sport and spreading it to the the young pups. which i will cover last as its the our current disadvantage as a country on the world stage.

    qualifying is straight forward and simple from regions and counties within...the matches start 2-3years out from the WC date... next is 2015 in London. of course the 7's you mention is a different game and stategy....like i guess indoor soccer or something.

    the 2016 olympics in brazil will feature the return of 7s rugby ...last played in the 1930s but....hey USA is/ was the defending gold medal team.... there are some world 7s rugby championships i think its done every year.... its such a different game though im not a HUGE fan but its ok. ive always been a fan of 15s or club rugby as its sometime rederrd to. even when i was inshape and fast...i didnt like 7s as much as club.

    in the southern hemisphere there is super league rugby which is kind of a blend of 7s style but played with 14 players i think...again little different and much more running and hitting...most guys are all the same size and speed. it has gained popularity in austrailia and parts of england...not so much here or othr places.

    our disadvantage in the world comes from kids not playing the sport at an early age....plain and simple.

    when i was in NZ for world cup last fall...the craziness and amount of support that small island nation gets and gives its rugby it just unimaginable and almost indescribable. imagine all the soccer fields in the US and make them into rugby pitches...and that would describe how many fields you see in NZ...there are no baseball fields...football ...nothing. every school at every level has several pitches...same with every town...no matter how small. its clearly obvious how a country that only has 4 - 5 million people is so good and dominate on the world stage. the only other country comparable is South Africa...but in craziness and passion only...they obviously have higher population numbers.

    so you can understand anyone from those countries calls us the Sleeping Giant...with 300 million....when we fig it out we will no doubt dominate.

    so...starting young and developing good coaching and a federation to propperly organize and support all this...is the key... Alot of headway has been made since i left college nearly 20years ago...the last five years has been GREAT for highschool and college...where now there are many more schools giving scholarships. if you were curious...UT was good enough and invited to play Div 1 rugby when this new / scholarship and league/travel was set up a couple years ago....but unfortunately they had to decline and drop down to D2 because of the lack of funding and support so far..plus Title IV doesnt help either!!!! But i am still hopeful for them in the future. one of my friends from college and one of the reasons i found out about rugby and played it...is a coach on the UT team...and he hosts kids and parents every year from bigger citties to the north who playd rugby in highschool and want to attend UT even without the scholly.... so again i think its only a matter of time.

    the college game is starting to pick up speed and its dependant on working, developing down to the lower levels. Camps Highschools and summer leagues for kids... at the lower levels 15 and under down to 9 yr olds they are trying to get the kids playing in between seasons...no matter the sport...right now its been summertime. more and more kids getting exposed to it...and hopefully eventually turning off to other sports....or at least by the time they get to highschool lokking for one that offers rugby as a fall or spring sport...

    another good thing is....The state of TN has one of the better settups for highschool comp and playoffs.....especially for its population size.

    winners from leagues in the east-knoxville area. cental-nashville and west- memphis play in a year end tourny for a state cup! the guy i mentioned as one of the coaches at UT was LARGLY responsible for this state cup and solely the creator/organizer of the smokey mountain athletic league SMAC.

    so...anyway...seek it out ...learn it ...support it. Rugby is the best team sport ever created...i truly believe that...having played all different and loved all sports in general...it doesnt even compare. plus the opportunities that have come to me and about because of rugby...weather its friends...travel or even jobs...its been great and that doesnt even touch on the discipline and respect of others.

    alright i think ive said enough

    cheers

    go big orange

    Thanks for the response.

    A couple more questions.

    1. Do you follow club rugby? If so who are some teams/players I should check out? Where can I check them out?

    2. When does qualification for the 2015 world cup start? Do we figure to have a better team then last WC? Who are some of our rivals from our region?

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    Odie

  • sorry first off im in a bad habbit of calling Union rugby..."club" anyway union rugby is 15 players and different rules,time,etc from sevens rugby... or rugby league, which i described as the 14 player faster style down in austrailia.... all those things described above.

    club rugby as i refer is all the city mens clubs across america....raleigh is who i follow. but chicago, NY ath Club, Olympia out in SF area....OMBAC in san diego.... theses are all examples of mens club "union" style rugby that feed the national team...which plays in the world cup.....the USA Eagles.

    player wize... Todd Cleaver is prob the best and most well known player right now...but there are several young up and comers making waves. personally there's a kid named Blaine Skully who graduated from Cal Berkley thats going to be great ...i hope anyway. he got got some experience on the world cup stage last year and did a solid job.... another young kid i love is currently playing football at univ Utah...but i cant seem to find his name on the roster....so will have to do some research and find out whats up with him....basically he was the youngest kid to ever make the US team back in 07 for the world cup then... this past year he didnt go because he was supposedly on scholarship at Utah....
    his name is Thretton Palamo.... and he's a special talent... just google his name.

    another guy thats been around for a bit...two world cups anyway...was from the dallas harliquins club team...but now plays prof over in France... is Z he's an african kid with a ridiculuous long hard name to say... and just goes by Z.....but here goes
    Takudzwa Ngwenya!!!!

    there are some others...and more importantly some really good college kids coming up...they just need experience on the world stage with game experience...

    one thing i forgot to mention is...how much more experience comes into play and is key rather than pure athleticism ...hard to explain...but i'll put it this way.. at 42 I can play against most college sides and winout position wise against a couple kids im matched up against. anyway....obviously there are some exceptions to that rule...but for the most part my example is just that.

    USARUGBY.org is a good place to start as far as reading about general news along all fronts....from youth to college to the Eagles.

    there are some other news/websites that are decent for following rugby here in the US and on the mens club side....

    rugbyrugby.com

    rugbymag.com

    also when is season....ESPN3 covers the french rugby league...and you can watch it on replay on the comp. Also if you have direct tv...fox soccer channel and Skysports covers most of the world rugby events....like tri nations soon to be called the world something... and also six nations .... england, scotland, ireland, wales, france and italy... every jan/feb time frame... its a round robin tourny over six weeks.

    world cup qualifers...for sevens and the guys that will be chosen for the olympic team are going on this weekend...until...? As for union and the 2015 london tourny... i would imagine they would start next year suring the fall.

    hope this helps.

    spread the word.

    pcox21