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What Jones inherits vs what Dooley inherited....

  • 1. 3 fairly full classes by Dooleys 2010-2012 classes vs the 2007-2009 classes of Fulmer/Kiffin that had tons of attrition and as I will later discuss....very few even average SEC players among them. The 2007 and 2009 classes have been labeled by many experts as 2 of the top 10 worst SEC classes of that decade and the 2008 class only had 16-17 players in it, only three 4* players, and only 6-7 that really contributed in 2011 or 2012(their SR or RS SR year) for Dooley. Among that 2008 class, only Dallas Thomas and a juco DL G. Williams (only played for Dooley 1 year IIRC being a juco) started consistently out that 2008 class on the DLine or Oline...maybe you could make the case for 2* DT M Hughes in 2010 before he got kicked off the team but we will get back to the lack of "big uglies" Dooley inherited later on.

    2. While Jones inherits a 2010 SR class that will probably not include Bray, Hunter and maybe even J. James it will have 6-8 quality SEC quality starting true SRs along with RS SRs from the 2009 class like M. Walls, D. Hood, and N. Oliver who showed he very well might contribute a lot in his final year. The roster also will probably have on it from the juco ranks SRs B. Moore, Couch, Sentimore, and maybe even D. McCullers. That is possibly 13-15 quality SRs that have experience playing in the SEC. What Did Dooley inherit for quality SRs? G. Williams, L. Stocker, G. Jones, C. Walker and D. Moore + a maybe a case could be made for a very few others like injured Ben Martin or ? to make up 6-8 quality SEC SRs. Vitually half of what Jones inherits coming into the 2013 season.

    3. Jones inherits a new $40+ million dollar state of the art indoor training facility that only 1-2 other teams in America can counter. 1 being Oregon who UT rarely goes head to head with for a recruit. Neyland Stadium has also been given a make over and many of those renovations were sorely needed 3 years ago. Jones also inherits a VFL program that has even more portential now that A. Davis has been hired. While problems are still very apparent among Athletics vs Academics and in the revenue line of the Athletic Dept...those areas have at least been brought to the attention of everyone and identified and many have already started to be addressed.

    4. I know its does not seem like much but all but some stability has been restored (this might be a reach). Outside of about 3-4 RS SRs from the 2009 class this roster will have only known Dooley as a HC and IMO many of the "bad apples" are no longer on this team. 1 coach for the last 3 years is better than 3 coaches in 2 years (Fall of 2008-Jan 2010). This program is more stable and appears it will not suffer the gigantic attrition that destroys a program after a coaching change like we went through with Fulmer and Kiffin back to back years just prior to Dooley.

    5. Butch Jones was hired at the only ideal time to make a coaching change. Mid Dec. is light years better than Jan. 15th when Dooley was hired. It gave Jones a perfect time to assemble a staff and recruit this last full week, evaluate recruits, his returning roster and this program during the dead period and have a full January 2013 for him and his staff to be on the road, in the homes of recruits, and hosting official visitors. Dooley had only 2.5 weeks and IIRC only 2 weekends to host OVs. Dooley also had to hire a staff, organize what staff he hired on who to target after doing a few quick evaluations. Coming from La Tech and who they targeted was a disadvantage to Dooley in Jan 2010 vs who Jones has offered and recruited coming from a much better program in Cincy. The transition to the talent level (or more importantly the existing relationships with that talent level) that UT recruits is not as great with Jones coming from Cincy as it was for Dooley coming from La Tech. Jones staff has more than likely either offered the player prior, met with the player and/or HS coach or evaluated the prospect or have done all 3 that they are now recruiting for UT.

    More to come later today regarding the talent per position Dooley inherited vs what Jones has inherited. vols

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by SamVolsam on 12/15/2012 at 5:57 AM

    SamVolsam

  • SamVolsam said...

    1. 3 fairly full classes by Dooleys 2010-2012 classes vs the 2007-2009 classes of Fulmer/Kiffin that had tons of attrition and as I will later discuss....very few even average SEC players among them. The 2007 and 2009 classes have been labeled by many experts as 2 of the top 10 worst SEC classes of that decade and the 2008 class only had 16-17 players in it, only three 4* players, and only 6-7 that really contributed in 2011 or 2012(their SR or RS SR year) for Dooley. Among that 2008 class, only Dallas Thomas and a juco DL G. Williams (only played for Dooley 1 year IIRC being a juco) started consistently out that 2008 class on the DLine or Oline...maybe you could make the case for 2* DT M Hughes in 2010 before he got kicked off the team but we will get back to the lack of "big uglies" Dooley inherited later on.

    2. While Jones inherits a 2010 SR class that will probably not include Bray, Hunter and maybe even J. James it will have 6-8 quality SEC quality starting true SRs along with RS SRs from the 2009 class like M. Walls, D. Hood, and N. Oliver who showed he very well might contribute a lot in his final year. The roster also will probably have on it from the juco ranks SRs B. Moore, Couch, Sentimore, and maybe even D. McCullers. That is possibly 13-15 quality SRs that have experience playing in the SEC. What Did Dooley inherit for quality SRs? G. Williams, L. Stocker, G. Jones, C. Walker and D. Moore + a maybe a case could be made for a very few others like injured Ben Martin or ? to make up 6-8 quality SEC SRs. Vitually half of what Jones inherits coming into the 2013 season.

    3. Jones inherits a new $40+ million dollar state of the art indoor training facility that only 1-2 other teams in America can counter. 1 being Oregon who UT rarely goes head to head with for a recruit. Neyland Stadium has also been given a make over and many of those renovations were sorely needed 3 years ago. Jones also inherits a VFL program that has even more portential now that A. Davis has been hired. While problems are still very apparent among Athletics vs Academics and in the revenue line of the Athletic Dept...those areas have at least been brought to the attention of everyone and identified and many have already started to be addressed.

    4. I know its does not seem like much but all but some stability has been restored (this might be a reach). Outside of about 3-4 RS SRs from the 2009 class this roster will have only known Dooley as a HC and IMO many of the "bad apples" are no longer on this team. 1 coach for the last 3 years is better than 3 coaches in 2 years (Fall of 2008-Jan 2010). This program is more stable and appears it will not suffer the gigantic attrition that destroys a program after a coaching change like we went through with Fulmer and Kiffin back to back years just prior to Dooley.

    5. Butch Jones was hired at the only ideal time to make a coaching change. Mid Dec. is light years better than Jan. 15th when Dooley was hired. It gave Jones a perfect time to assemble a staff and recruit this last full week, evaluate recruits, his returning roster and this program during the dead period and have a full January 2013 for him and his staff to be on the road, in the homes of recruits, and hosting official visitors. Dooley had only 2.5 weeks and IIRC only 2 weekends to host OVs. Dooley also had to hire a staff, organize what staff he hired on who to target after doing a few quick evaluations. Coming from La Tech and who they targeted was a disadvantage to Dooley in Jan 2010 vs who Jones has offered and recruited coming from a much better program in Cincy. The transition to the talent level (or more importantly the existing relationships with that talent level) that UT recruits is not as great with Jones coming from Cincy as it was for Dooley coming from La Tech. Jones staff has more than likely either offered the player prior, met with the player and/or HS coach or evaluated the prospect or have done all 3 that they are now recruiting for UT.

    More to come later today regarding the talent per position Dooley inherited vs what Jones has inherited. vols

    Good points +1

    bavw ●

  • Very good points, Sam. The only thing that scares me is our schedule this year. I still think we have a chance for 7 or 8 wins, but it won't be easy. Those trips to Oregon, UF and Bammer are gonna be brutal.

    Jersey Vol ●

  • Good post. No doubt that Dooley inherited a nightmare. I think what he provided TN given he was a no-name is commendable. I think his tenure will be looked at more objectively as time passes. That said, even given the circumstances,
    I think a change was definitely in order. I really like our chances with CBJ. I think he will recruit better, and take the talent we have right now farther. He certainly has a better starting point than CDD as you have painstaking outlined.

    stan t

  • I think we all understand and agree that CBJ walked into a better situation than CDD. But that's no excuse for the yearly regression that the team suffered under CDD.

    JCJ1986

  • Jersey Vol said...

    Very good points, Sam. The only thing that scares me is our schedule this year. I still think we have a chance for 7 or 8 wins, but it won't be easy. Those trips to Oregon, UF and Bammer are gonna be brutal.

    No doubt that its is hard with Oregon as an ooc game but outside that game its the same ole SEC schedule that every year minus going on the road for our 3 toughest games like you said. 6 reg. season wins seems to be a good over/under just because of our roster issues at DB (esp with BR coming off injury and not knowing if Bonner will even be here) but also due to the extreme inexperience at QB, WR, and CB. The thing that is different with 2013 v 2010 is we do have returning players with talent at those positions...while maybe not starters, they have been in the program training and practicing. Another thing to consider is the offensive scheme will be totally new and I expect there to be a transition period where everything is not running on auto pilot. I do thing a simplied defensive scheme will be an advantage going back to a 4 man front.

    This post was edited by SamVolsam on 12/15/2012 at 7:53 AM

    SamVolsam

  • JCJ1986 said...

    I think we all understand and agree that CBJ walked into a better situation than CDD. But that's no excuse for the yearly regression that the team suffered under CDD.

    There is no doubt Dooley should have won 3-5 more games during his tenure and he would still be here even if he just beat KY in 2011 and maybe even as few as Vandy in 2012 (maybe add Mizzou too).

    I do think his coaching job in 2010 was underrated. If Chuck Smith does not ignore the 2nd personel call we win @ LSU and we did beat UNC in the MCB as it was such a bad rule...it was fixed a few months later.

    Dooley could of had that team @ 8-5.

    2011 was the hardest schedule I have ever seen and our roster in terms of experienced talent actually got worse from 2010s bc of the 2007-2009 classes......still he should have beaten KY and all would of been ok.

    Oh well. In the end I think he made some mistakes (Sal, not calling a few timeouts, not focusing early enough on recruiting NC and VA and finally maybe not building enough relationships instate) his players didnt make enough key plays and the timing was poor for probably most anyone that wanted that job in Jan 2010 (few did) and it was time for a change.

    This post was edited by SamVolsam on 12/15/2012 at 8:04 AM

    SamVolsam

  • Also, there is no longer the cloud of pending NCAA sanctions hanging over us. Yes, we are on probation, but no further penalties are expected.

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    UTFPMD ●

  • Very good read

    Pastor Jax

  • UTFPMD said...

    Also, there is no longer the cloud of pending NCAA sanctions hanging over us. Yes, we are on probation, but no further penalties are expected.

    Agree. Its nothing to the cloud that was over our program in 2010.

    SamVolsam

  • Sam doing some work! Good stuff and +1.

    signature image

    RockytopATL

  • Nice breakdown. +1

    ol dad

  • Great post SV! Putting things in perspective. Let's all hope CBJ takes this ball and runs with it. GO VOLS! +1

    This post was edited by OrangeNCarolina on 12/15/2012 at 9:52 AM

    BUTCH IS NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART. GO VOLS!

    OrangeNCarolina

  • I actually think playing Bama and UF on the road next year is a good thing. Those would be very tough games for us anyway, even if at home. I think having UGA, USCe, Auburn, and Vandy at home provides a better chance of getting some good SEC wins than if we had to play those teams on the road.

    GoBigO

  • GoBigO said...

    I actually think playing Bama and UF on the road next year is a good thing. Those would be very tough games for us anyway, even if at home. I think having UGA, USCe, Auburn, and Vandy at home provides a better chance of getting some good SEC wins than if we had to play those teams on the road.

    shrug I think you may be on to something there

    SamVolsam

  • GoBigO said...

    I actually think playing Bama and UF on the road next year is a good thing. Those would be very tough games for us anyway, even if at home. I think having UGA, USCe, Auburn, and Vandy at home provides a better chance of getting some good SEC wins than if we had to play those teams on the road.

    I agree....we need to get some wins in K-Town and sometimes playing big games on the road is less pressure than at home.

    muddy waters ●

  • GoBigO said...

    I actually think playing Bama and UF on the road next year is a good thing. Those would be very tough games for us anyway, even if at home. I think having UGA, USCe, Auburn, and Vandy at home provides a better chance of getting some good SEC wins than if we had to play those teams on the road.

    Very true!

    Jersey Vol ●

  • Very good breakdown! +1!

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    Follow me on Twitter @zachzoo615

    Zach Zoo ●

  • SamVolsam said...

    No doubt that its is hard with Oregon as an ooc game but outside that game its the same ole SEC schedule that every year minus going on the road for our 3 toughest games like you said. 6 reg. season wins seems to be a good over/under just because of our roster issues at DB (esp with BR coming off injury and not knowing if Bonner will even be here) but also due to the extreme inexperience at QB, WR, and CB. The thing that is different with 2013 v 2010 is we do have returning players with talent at those positions...while maybe not starters, they have been in the program training and practicing. Another thing to consider is the offensive scheme will be totally new and I expect there to be a transition period where everything is not running on auto pilot. I do thing a simplied defensive scheme will be an advantage going back to a 4 man front.

    i agree i think it gives us our best chance to win..roster still pretty good and plus coach jones seems to be able to get alot out of his kids...just saying what if butch goes to oregon and wins?
    and florida started to struggle at the season end..bama they just reload if they lost enough to even tell
    next year will be interesting..say the least

    vols4life1969

  • We are so much better at QB.....even just looking at peterman and Worley. Hopefully we get Riley....we probably lose bray but we are good at QB. DB is the problem. We have even bodies at wr....someone will get it done.

    SRDC Vol

  • Jersey Vol said...

    Very good points, Sam. The only thing that scares me is our schedule this year. I still think we have a chance for 7 or 8 wins, but it won't be easy. Those trips to Oregon, UF and Bammer are gonna be brutal.

    I agree on the UF and Alabama games, but If Chip Kelly leaves Oregon for the NFL after this season all bets are off on how that game might go. I've seen Autzen Stadium up close, and it's nowhere near as intimidating as the typical (i.e., NOT Vanderbilt) SEC stadium.

    This post was edited by tntoak on 12/15/2012 at 12:33 PM

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    tntoak

  • SRDC Vol said...

    We are so much better at QB.....even just looking at peterman and Worley. Hopefully we get Riley....we probably lose bray but we are good at QB. DB is the problem. We have even bodies at wr....someone will get it done.

    We have potential talent at QB, but very little experience, which is just as important if not more. Most of Worley's game action is two years past. Peterman has never taken a college snap.

    Teams with inexperienced QBs historically do not fare well.

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    RockytopATL

  • RockytopATL said...

    We have potential talent at QB, but very little experience, which is just as important if not more. Most of Worley's game action is two years past. Peterman has never taken a college snap.

    Teams with inexperienced QBs historically do not fare well.

    Anything at qb has to be better than what we seen with Simms..... He was only sacked 15 billion times....

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    Go Vols

    orangeasylum ●

  • orangeasylum said...

    Anything at qb has to be better than what we seen with Simms..... He was only sacked 15 billion times....

    So true. The kid was tough as nails, but he just could not pull the trigger. And he never learned how to step up in the pocket to avoid pressure.

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    RockytopATL

  • There is an interesting excerpt of a letter written (most likely) by Dooley's agent on TOS VIP Room. It covers the situation Dooley faced when he arrived and the situation when he left. A lot of the areas in which he fell short was left out but it offers an interesting perspective of the situation when Dooley arrived. The most interesting areas addressed was the drug use, class attendance and lack of accountability. I cannot reproduce the letter here.

    This post was edited by RunThruThe T on 12/15/2012 at 5:08 PM

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    RunThruThe T

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