Online Now 710

The CheckerBoard

The place for inside information on the Tennessee Vols

On this Board 376
Record: 4783 (12/9/2012)

Online now 756
Record: 6475 (12/7/2012)

Reply

Which one if any?

  • volfan28 said...

    Edit: I quoted the wrong poster. My apologies.

    Here comes some wisdom, brace yourself.

    LWS is right. The last 4 yrs have put our program in a bad place. You don't recover from that over night. It takes time. The question for me is, are we on the right track? What is the right track? Personally, I think we need to put ourselves in position to win 7 or 8 g/yr consistently. From there, our tradition and facilities will be enough to pull in elite recruits. We can win 7 or 8 g/yr without elite talent. Look at MSU and Vandy. What do they have that we don't? Stability. They have an established system on both sides of the ball and that familiarity is why they are where they are. Are we on the road to stability? Yes. Our staff has great chemistry, and the core has been together for a while. I don't expect that to change. Not only that, the system they are installing is proven on both sides of the ball. In yr 3, UT will be a shoe-in 8 wins, maybe more, depending on recruiting. Our tradition and facilities will take over from there. Keep your head up.

    I wanted to followup your excellent summary - we have lots of people saying we don't have an elite recruiting staff. Volfan28 mentioned chemistry - CBJ has that already, Dooley didn't years one and three for sure. That makes a huge difference in the W/L column and in team chemistry - the results will be positive press (TN can use that), and less ammo for other coaches. This will help recruiting - it is a circle. I really think you will see gigantic strides this year - CJB can coach, and next year's class should be top 10. I also don't think this years class is a trainwreck - NSD will be ok.

    Volsfaithful

  • Dooley was doing what he knew to do, but I saw no enthusiasm, only negative emotion. He was feeling the pressure and it showed. Chaney was a really nice guy, jovial and avuncular but there was no "fire in his belly". Sal had the fire but the timing to the new system was all wrong, should have held it back a year.

    This coach Jones and his staff are at their career position. They have been working their way methodically up the ladder. They look to have the "fire in their belly", the burning desire to succeed. They know just by looking around that they have hit the big time and they want to stay here and prove their worth. The fact that they arrived as a "team" makes it all the more likely that they want to succeed as a team. This will bleed over to the players and the recruits will feel it. Enthusiasm is contagious and it breeds success.

    We will be back. We will be moderately successful sooner than many folks think. Once that pattern is set, this coaching staff will reel them in.

    Even the Mets eventually won a World Series, (let us not talk about the Cubs).

    Tomasacio

  • volfan28 said...

    Edit: I quoted the wrong poster. My apologies.

    Here comes some wisdom, brace yourself.

    LWS is right. The last 4 yrs have put our program in a bad place. You don't recover from that over night. It takes time. The question for me is, are we on the right track? What is the right track? Personally, I think we need to put ourselves in position to win 7 or 8 g/yr consistently. From there, our tradition and facilities will be enough to pull in elite recruits. We can win 7 or 8 g/yr without elite talent. Look at MSU and Vandy. What do they have that we don't? Stability. They have an established system on both sides of the ball and that familiarity is why they are where they are. Are we on the road to stability? Yes. Our staff has great chemistry, and the core has been together for a while. I don't expect that to change. Not only that, the system they are installing is proven on both sides of the ball. In yr 3, UT will be a shoe-in 8 wins, maybe more, depending on recruiting. Our tradition and facilities will take over from there. Keep your head up.

    28 one thing MSU & Vandy did NOT do is schedule Oregon when you need wins just to get bowl eligible.
    I strongly feel that administration at the highest levels are making any return to glory much harder.

    troopervol70

  • I gave you a +1, because you may get ripped for not pumping sunshine! I do think most of us share your concern, some wont dare admit it. But hopefully CBJ can pull some surprise next week, and maybe win some games this year and get things turned around in the right direction. If we win, the recruits will start to come easier.

    1vavol

  • NCVOL09 said...

    Perhaps this is irrational of me.....but i kept saying yr 3 of the Dooley era would be the one. I can't do that again. If I have to wait until 2015 to get to 8 wins I'm going to be really mad. We should win-8 by yr 2 and 9-10 consistently after that

    The sad thing is that had we not gutted our defense with the Sunseri hire, year three would have been the one. I've posted this repeatedly, but if we could have put the 2011 defense on the field with the 2012 offense, we would have had a huge year. Instead, we wasted one of the most prolific offenses in program history by pairing it with the worst defense ever.

    signature image

    RockytopATL

  • troopervol70 said...

    28 one thing MSU & Vandy did NOT do is schedule Oregon when you need wins just to get bowl eligible.
    I strongly feel that administration at the highest levels are making any return to glory much harder.

    Good point. I have mixed emotions about playing Oregon though. On one hand, it seems easier to just buy them out and schedule an easier game. On the other, if you buy them out, how does that look? I don't want to look scared to play anyone. My feeling is you have to do the best you can with the cards that are dealt to you. Maybe scheduling Oregon was a bad decision. That was done at least 4 years ago I think, so now we just have to deal with it. I think dropping them sends mixed signals to the fans and players alike. Also, knowing Oregon is coming up motivated the staff and players to bring their A game and to do their best. I think we are most likely gonna get beat, but maybe we can pull it off. Imagine what that would be like? I believe that we have nothng to lose and everything to gain by playing them next year. The underdog always has the risk vs benefit in their favor. I think we are capable of winning that game. We will see. Go Vols!

    acetylcholine

  • This stuff always goes in cycles and we are in a down cycle. We have at least partially brought it on ourselves though. We had a most successful coach who had two down years back to back and we wanted and got his head. So basically as a fan base we have established that we are not willing to put up with a couple of bad years before we start crowing for a new coach. Other than Nick Saban there are no other coaches that are good enough to put together a sustainable dynasty but we seem to keep believing if we go through enough coaches we'll find our Nick Saban. In the mean time we lose players on the roster and we lose recruits. We can't understand why our program is on a downward spin. There is no doubt the former AD made a couple of bad hires and there is no guarantee, regardless of the giddy enthusiasm, that the new staff will bring us back to the top. If they don't, the spiral will continue. We just have to be patient with this new staff. We must reduce our immediate expectations. If we don't it is not unlikely we'll go through another turnover in 3 years and this downward spiral will continue until we are completely inconsequential. We must keep realistic expectations and give the new guy an opportunity to build this program, even through bad times. Trust me, there are going to be some trying times ahead, some embarrassing losses and some dissapoitment. Sermon over, I'll pass the plate later.

    This post was edited by coonhound on 1/27/2013 at 8:43 AM

    coonhound

  • coonhound said...

    This stuff always goes in cycles and we are in a down cycle. We have at least partially brought it on ourselves though. We had a most successful coach who had two down years back to back and we wanted and got his head. So basically as a fan base we have established that we are not willing to put up with a couple of bad years before we start crowing for a new coach. Other than Nick Saban there are no other coaches that are good enough to put together a sustainable dynasty but we seem to keep believing if we go through enough coaches we'll find our Nick Saban. In the mean time we lose players on the roster and we lose recruits. We can't understand why our program is on a downward spin. There is no doubt the former AD made a couple of bad hires and there is no guarantee, regardless of the giddy enthusiasm, that the new staff will bring us back to the top. If they don't, the spiral will continue. We just have to be patient with this new staff. We must reduce our immediate expectations. If we don't it is not unlikely we'll go through another turnover in 3 years and this downward spiral will continue until we are completely inconsequential. We must keep realistic expectations and give the new guy an opportunity to build this program, even through bad times. Trust me, there are going to be some trying times ahead, some embarrassing losses and some dissapoitment. Sermon over, I'll pass the plate later.

    All true. +1

    I won't revise history, however, by saying we should not have fired Fulmer. His time had passed. The first and biggest mistake was made with the ensuing hire.

    signature image

    RockytopATL

  • volfan28 said...

    Edit: I quoted the wrong poster. My apologies.

    Here comes some wisdom, brace yourself.

    LWS is right. The last 4 yrs have put our program in a bad place. You don't recover from that over night. It takes time. The question for me is, are we on the right track? What is the right track? Personally, I think we need to put ourselves in position to win 7 or 8 g/yr consistently. From there, our tradition and facilities will be enough to pull in elite recruits. We can win 7 or 8 g/yr without elite talent. Look at MSU and Vandy. What do they have that we don't? Stability. They have an established system on both sides of the ball and that familiarity is why they are where they are. Are we on the road to stability? Yes. Our staff has great chemistry, and the core has been together for a while. I don't expect that to change. Not only that, the system they are installing is proven on both sides of the ball. In yr 3, UT will be a shoe-in 8 wins, maybe more, depending on recruiting. Our tradition and facilities will take over from there. Keep your head up.

    vandy and ms. state are mostly the product of scheduling. I agree that both have better leadership now than in the past. Still their records are the product of scheduling mostly. They both beat UT and Auburn. If those schools have just mediocre coaching, that doesn't happen.

    DCVolunteer

  • coonhound said...

    We had a most successful coach who had two down years back to back and we wanted and got his head.

    Fulmer was just one year removed from playing in the SEC Championship game. 05 and 08 were the bad years.

    signature image signature image signature image

    OrangeVol79

  • hickey1 said...

    I am starting to think that UT may never get back. I just want something positive to happen for my beloved vols. I just can.t understand with our fan base, facilities,and stadium why we can't get one big Tim prospect to come here.

    This looks like a Bama fan quote circa 2006.

    Coach85

  • Coach85 said...

    This looks like a Bama fan quote circa 2006.

    Exactly

    signature image signature image signature image

    OrangeVol79

  • my fellow vols...including me lets all dont get caught up in guessing wins and loss'e this year
    coach jones has his work cut out,being the first year,i do think he can win the game we are custom
    to winning..vandy,kentucky..ect...we do not need to build our selfs up like last year then be ready
    to run coach jones out of town.
    i look for a better season this year ..then last season..also dont think we will see those 5-7 records
    like dooley 2 years in a role or not making a bowl game.
    have no way of knowing this,but i think we land lawson ,bellamy-100%..bell his childhood coming to games and basketball games..wins out in the end..this class will be much better with coach jones behind the desk..then if dooley would have...looking brighter in knox
    forget about green..he didnt want to play with men week in and out...lets hope they can close with ford
    if not 2014 coach jones will land those good backs....go vols

    vols4life1969

  • I keep hearing "his time had passed." There is no proof of that at all. That is just something said by many to justify his firing, made them feel better I guess. His problem was listening to the fan base who wanted his offensive system replaced by sumptin mo fainsy. So he hires a new OC and installed a new system. We know the results. Ask Gene Chizik how that worked out for him last season, he changed two systems. Heck we are about to change two systems again this year, with the offensive system being closer to Clawfense" than what we've had during the last two coaches. How many games are we going to win? We better win a bunch of them or our recruiting could really suck next year as we become more and more irrelevant. We simply have to lower our expectations and suck it up and support this team for the next 2-3 years or WE are going to kill this program.

    Btw there could certainly be 6-7 losses in 2013. We are down on talent from last season and have this schedule. Expecting a better record "then" last year isn't healthy.

    Date Opponent Location
    Aug. 31 Austin Peay Knoxville
    Sept. 7 Western Kentucky Knoxville
    Sept. 14 at Oregon Eugene, Ore.
    Sept. 21 at Florida * Gainesville, Fla.
    Sept. 28 South Alabama Knoxville
    Oct. 5 Georgia * Knoxville
    Oct. 12 Open Date
    Oct. 19 South Carolina * Knoxville
    Oct. 26 at Alabama * Tuscaloosa, Ala.
    Nov. 2 at Missouri * Columbia, Mo.
    Nov. 9 Auburn * Knoxville
    Nov. 16 Open Date
    Nov. 23 Vanderbilt * Knoxville
    Nov. 30 at Kentucky * Lexington, Ky.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by coonhound on 1/27/2013 at 9:33 AM

    coonhound

  • NCVOL09 said...

    Perhaps this is irrational of me.....but i kept saying yr 3 of the Dooley era would be the one. I can't do that again. If I have to wait until 2015 to get to 8 wins I'm going to be really mad. We should win-8 by yr 2 and 9-10 consistently after that

    I wouldn't go as far to say you're irrational. What I would say is this: Dooley had a losing history as a head coach. The staff he put together had little knowledge of what the other was doing. Their system struggled from start to finish. By yr 3 we should have made huge strides but we fell way short like previous 2 yrs. this was all due to coaching, schemes, and a seriously flawed defensive system. Fast forward.....2013......................

    CBJ & Staff as a whole brings a winning attitude, and record with them. This we didn't get with Dooley. Already we're in a better starting place. Time will only tell, but I firmly believe this coach will be just as if not more successful here than CMU, and Cincy. They've worked tirelessly recruiting with minimal time. And quite frankly, am happy with the results considering the circumstances. We as Vol fans have the right to be concerned though. We also have the right to be excited about the new staff, attitude, and recruits who have chosen to be a VFL! I thinks it's in their best interest for us to encourage them every change we get in a public setting. Just my thoughts FWIW

    Sogozit

  • troopervol70 said...

    28 one thing MSU & Vandy did NOT do is schedule Oregon when you need wins just to get bowl eligible.
    I strongly feel that administration at the highest levels are making any return to glory much harder.

    I think that was signed while Fulmer was still here. Also, we need to continue to schedule tough opponents.

    bgosnell151

  • acetylcholine said...

    I think what volfan is saying is 7-8 games per year consistently. I think we can win at least 7 games year one, 8 or so year 2 and at the very least 8 by year 3. That will get us to bowl games, and if we can win a couple of those, we will be set. Just look what winning some games has done for Vandy. Just the fact that we are in the top 3 with these elite guys is really an accomplishment. If you were an elite recruit, would you go to a team with a losing record 3 years in a row? Especially, when other top tier programs that are winning are begging you to come there? Even if we miss on all the other elite targets, we have enough talent to get to bowl games. Once we do that, things will really start to improve. And we may actually be able to close the deal on one or two of these guys on NSD. If that happens, it's just icing on the cake.

    I agree that losing is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Maybe I took 28's comment incorrectly, but my point is I don't want to wait 3 years to see us get to 7-8 wins. Unlike the beginning of the Dooley era, there is talent on this roster (even with the early departures). We don't need to win 10 games next year, thats not what I am asking. My thought is we need to win 7 next year, get to a bowl game, and upset a conference team we shouldn't (UGA, UF, Bama,). I'm not asking for a miracle but I do expect that if we pay CBJ 3 M and his staff another 3 that they should be able to take this talent to a bowl game and I think they are up to the challenge.

    NCVOL09

  • Paying Jones and staff $3 mil a year will not impact the won loss record.

    coonhound

  • LWSVOL said...

    losing record 3 of last 4 years. 4th head coach in last 6 years.

    getting big time recruits is going to be very difficult with the above.

    program needs to pull out a huge win to jump start interest from elite recruits. Beat a top 10 team.. something like that or hire a staff of elite recruiters which this staff is not made up of elite recruiters.

    Bingo. And, as also mentioned, the staff deserves a lot of credit for being in the battles they are.

    signature image

    slobberknocker

  • coonhound said...

    Paying Jones and staff $3 mil a year will not impact the won loss record.

    No but if my bosses paid me that amoubt they would expect results

    NCVOL09

  • hickey1 said...

    I am starting to think that UT may never get back. I just want something positive to happen for my beloved vols. I just can.t understand with our fan base, facilities,and stadium why we can't get one big Tim prospect to come here.

    We have got big recruits to come here! Last year we got CP, pig Howard, drea Bowles, Jason croon, McNeil our class was ranked 21st in the nation we just haven't been Coaching very well. The vols will get back to the elite and CBJ is going to get us there and I don't believe it is going to take as long as people might think so cheer up!

    UT wild willie

  • RockytopATL said...

    All true. +1

    I won't revise history, however, by saying we should not have fired Fulmer. His time had passed. The first and biggest mistake was made with the ensuing hire.

    Amen my brother. You can't hire a turd and expect it to smell like a rose. That hire was Hamilton's downfall. And UT's. +1

    BUTCH IS NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART. GO VOLS!

    OrangeNCarolina